Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-11-2007   #71
caspermike's Avatar
Bozeman, Montana
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,507
i think you 3 need to get it on seems like you are one in the same. sounds like this when you guys talk blah blah blah blah ......

caspermike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2007   #72
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 855
I think the dirty little secret of human history is that all governments were/are kleptocracies/oligarchies.

I think the dirty little secret of human history you speak of is the truth. The closest man has come in the past to a "just" gov't was the American gov't. But even these rich white men (Founding Fathers), for whatever reasons, had some basic contradictions within their high ideals. For example: The the Bill of Rights contrasts starkly with the enshrinement of slavery elsewhere in the original articles of the Constitution. Also, the protection of private property, a central idea to the American Dream, stands in contradiction to the fact that our nation was built on land which was taken by brutal force from the Native Americans.

The problem with all governments and all economic systems is this:

The nature of man is to constantly be at war (edit - look, I split my infinitive! shame on me!) between the desire to rise to our godly nature or succumb to our inevitable corruptibility.
History shows that ALL empires crumble. And, the American empire will not be exempt from this fate. It also shows that as these empires start to crumble its leaders become more corrupt and ruthless in an attempt to secure their own power. This is becoming plainly visible, for those who have eyes to see, within our current gov't institutions.

We humans live by stories. We define ourselves by the stories we tell ourselves and the stories we tell our children. The foundation of the any empire's power does not lie in its instruments of physical violence. Nope... it's lies in their ability to control the stories in which we define ourselves.

For many thousands and thousands of years the ruling class have dominated the stories that are told. The ruling class would cultivate, reward, and amplify the storytellers whose stories affirm the righteousness of their imperial ambitions. If you tried to tell a different story the ruling class would just marginalize you, and in the not-to-distant past they would just kill you. The stories endlessly repeated by the scribes - now called media pundits - would just become the stories most believed. If I told a story about the possibility of a world with peace, stability and NO WAR I would be marginalized as a "peacenik" who just doesn't live in reality. (Note that I said it's a possibility and not a prophecy) Why? Because the people who control the stories don't want peace. They thrive and profit off of war. So, the story stays the same and I am just labeled a moron who "doesn't get it." THANKFULLY, new communication technologies are helping to break this pattern. It is allowing truth tellers to be heard around the world, and making it harder to maintain the MYTHS of Empire.

Right now, people still believe in the worst story ever told. "It is in man's nature to be at war." I call bullcrap on this story. I refuse to believe in this story anymore... I suppose this is just my "individual ascension to a higher consciousness." If you look to the past the quoted statement rings loudly as truth. But, if you look to the future and see possibilities of human co-operation and a peaceful co-existance, then it "could" be possible. I guess it depends on how long we want to hold onto a bunch a bullshit stories. I would also point out that these people of the past believed in the prevailing story of their time. They just believed it to be true with no thoughts of their own. It reminds me of this quote from a guy named Michael Rivero,
" Everyone likes to say Hitler did this" and "Hitler did that". But the truth is Hitler did very little. He was a world class asshole, but the evil actually done, from the death camps to WW2 was all done by citizens who were afraid to question if what they were told by their government was the truth or not, and who because they did not want to admit to themselves that they were afraid to question the government, refused to see the truth behind the Reichstag Fire, refused to see the invasion by Poland was a staged fake, and followed Hitler into national disaster."

Remind anybody of what Bush is doing to America right now????????

Currently, the prevailing cultural stories and political discourse being told in our country our controlled by a far-right alliance of corporate plutocrats and religious theocrats. The story keeps telling us that an eternally growing economy benefits everyone. They keep telling us that we need the rich to invest in our economy, so therfore tax breaks are essential to them and not the middle-class and poor. They keep telling us that cutting social programs teaches the poor the values of hard work at whatever wages the market dictates. They keep telling us stories of a dangerous world full of criminals, terrorists, and evil people, and the only way to insure our safety is through huge military expenditures and police forces using physical force. These stories prosper and become accepted as the norm because they are preached from institutions such as major colleges funded by corporations and religious movements, and media sources owned by the corporate plutocrats. Other progressive thoughts and possibilites only seem to get marginalized because they don't cohere to the mainstream stories told by the ruling class.

I am done with these stories, and I know a growing number of humans are fed up with them as well. It is becoming very obvious that the current way of life and the empires that dominate the planet have reached their limits of exploitation that people and the Earth will sustain. Whether or not it turns out to be a catastrophic meltdown or grand opportunity is yet to be seen.

Start telling stories of possibilities instead of limitations!

I'm out...

Oh, and caspermike... does it sound like blah, blah, blah because you don't understand it? This isn't trying to belittle you but... you limit yourself in this world by ignoring the fact that you are ignorant. It's liberating to acknowledge your own ignorance. This experience may give you a chance at personal growth. Everybody should try it on a regular basis, myself included.

marko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2007   #73
Self-Aggrandizing jackass
heliodorus04's Avatar
The Ranch, Colorado
Paddling Since: 04
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,134
Originally Posted by marko View Post

Oh, and caspermike... does it sound like blah, blah, blah because you don't understand it? This isn't trying to belittle you
Is that because it actually doesn't take any effort to do, or because you're really taking the higher road here. See, if I'd have said that, it'd be because it's effortless. Thus, I'm a prime example of man not being able to escape his nature.

As much as I dislike personal attacks, certain violations of ethical behavior promote the "eye-for-an-eye" response in me. CasperMike proved a dick in another thread this year (to a friend no less), and a dick's a dick, so I don't mind taking easy & cheap shots, at least until an apology is tendered.

I dunno, maybe that makes me a little less tolerant, or maybe it makes me more committed to people asking forgiveness when they wrong someone. I know you felt my apology sincere, Marko, and I had indeed wronged you.

I'm losing some of my anonymity through this thread, and I don't want a reputation as a smug, know-it-all-dick to preceed me among the boating community. Peace to all, I'm backing out of this thread. And peace to CasperMike as well, I've taken my last shots at him tonight. I actually feel a little bad about it.
"self-aggrandizing jackass" - it says it right on the label
heliodorus04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2007   #74
pnw, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,404
Hey guys, dont worry about this. I got a pamphlet from my congressman, Doug Lamborn, that says everything is going to be ok. Whew, was I relieved. It doesnt really matter that he is one of the biggest idiots of all time and that you can actually see Dobson's (Focus on the Family) hand up the back of Lamborns shirt. Making him one of the biggest puppets of all time.
"Yesterday I was clever and tried to change the world. Today I am wise and try to change myself." -Rumi
gh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2007   #75
TakemetotheRiver's Avatar
Durango, Colorado
Paddling Since: 05
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,477
Marko, I came to work this morning and logged on, not expecting my faith in humanity to be completely renewed as your last post did- so thank you for that. There are those of us who believe we can re-write the stories that we will tell our children and hopefully they will begin to have happy endings again for posterity.

Thank you both for responding to CasperMike's ignorance- it was all I could do to avoid acknowledging and thereby validating his insult.
TakemetotheRiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2007   #76
caspermike's Avatar
Bozeman, Montana
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,507
sorry you 3. i am a dick, once a dick always a dick. but im in the shitty mood cause almost month without kayaking shit it gets to you if you know what i mean. but enjoy the river and thats the only place to find peace these days besides the park duringa weekday, when you have a big ole dubie on your and your just laying there stoned.

but anyways i learned alot form what you all have said, lots to read. but i do agree that staying anylonger isn't helping the situation to become anymore productive its just halting. and if saudi arabia could foot the bill and be the bigger country for the region we could back out and say fuck you.


peace until the day the earth is blessed with new life.
caspermike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2007   #77
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 855
TakemetotheRiver, Thank you for the kind words.

Count and GH, thanks as well.
marko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2007   #78
God Amongst Men
yetigonecrazy's Avatar
Phuoc My, Da Nang, THE 'NAM
Paddling Since: 1845
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,988
Originally Posted by brokenpaddlejon View Post
whoever we get in 08

whether your like or hate her, im sorry, but our next president is going to be hillary clinton
"Don't f$&@ing eddy out, just run it! Whaddya doin??" -LMyers
yetigonecrazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007   #79
saratoga, Wyoming
Paddling Since: 1980
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 111
[quote=yetigonecrazy; whether your like or hate her, im sorry, but our next president is going to be hillary clinton[/quote]

Don't count your chickens before they hatch guy. She hasn't even had to debate for real yet and she's already screwing up.

Just wanted to bring this thread back up since I havn't heard anyone discussin the war lately. Seems like AlQueda is on the run and actually fighting against the Taliban. Most point that the troop surge is the reason but who really knows huh? I wonder why the main-streams aren't saying anything about this?

"Since retaking Congress in November 2006, the top foreign policy priority of the Democratic Party has not been to expand the size of our military for the war on terror or to strengthen our democracy promotion efforts in the Middle East or to prevail in Afghanistan. It has been to pull our troops out of Iraq, to abandon the democratically elected government there, and to hand a defeat to President Bush."

Those words were part of a speech that traced Mr. Lieberman's own position on the war in the tradition of not only the great Democratic presidents of the 20th century, but also the interventionism of President Clinton and his vice president, Albert Gore, a man who has played to the net roots base that tried and failed to unseat Mr. Lieberman in 2006.

If you want to see a good movie and to understand a little about what is going on and has been going on since, well, Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, Musalinni, then I stongly encourage you all to watch IN THE FACE OF EVIL... Reagans War in Word and Deeds. It should be watched by all Americans. From the donkeys to the elephants and all the moderates in between.
rmpeddie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2007   #80
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 646
Ah, if only the world were so simple that all you had to do was beat the bad guy and things would be right again.

The democrats could have forced the US out of Iraq by now if they really wanted to by cutting off the funding. They are giving the surge a chance to work. Yea, hopefully Iraq won't become a total failure, but the war clearly wasn't worth it.

Yea, I don't like Hillary because I don't want the presidency to be in the hands of only two families for 24-28 years! But, I think the US is tired of an "image" president heavy with hype but short on pragmatic ideas. Give Hillary credit for being practical--she does her homework.

basil is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Topic Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help with Walk America for March of Dimes hobie Whitewater Kayaking 1 02-03-2007 05:38 PM
Kayaking thru Latin America Captain red beard Whitewater Kayaking 16 11-14-2006 09:44 AM
America - Freedom to Facism blutzski The Eddy 80 10-11-2006 10:28 PM
Central America in January westfall Whitewater Kayaking 3 10-28-2004 12:43 PM

» Classified Ads
Wavesport Fuse 56...

posted by SummitSurfer

Wavesport Fuse 56 "Medium" barely used in great condition. ...

men's Cloudveil ski jacket

posted by marilyn anderson

men's Cloudveil gortex soft-shell ski jacket/ size medium/...

aluminum "trailer"/box...

posted by Johnny

I am selling an aluminum frame component designed to hold...

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities

Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:13 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.