Perhaps even more apropos is a quote by Hermann Goering (I think) with which Bush must be familiar: "Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”
Perhaps even more apropos is a quote by Hermann Goering (I think) with which Bush must be familiar: "Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”
we wouldn't be america without a revolutionary war! wars are not all bad, or hitler would still be around! and i never said once that the only reason we went to to iraq was because of 9/11
so is UK in a lie, Germany in a lie, Poland in a lie?
why haven't the rest of U.N. countries pulled out more troops and why are advisers saying to stay? even ones not from America???????????????????????????????
Perhaps even more apropos is a quote by Hermann Goering (I think) with which Bush must be familiar: "Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”
If more of us really remembered history we would not be in this situation. Nice TMTTR
Or maybe we would! If he is correct.
"wars are not all bad". Only someone who had never been to one would make a statement like that. That's the biggest problem with electing leaders who have not seen the face of war or even sobered up enough in college to at least read about one.
Not all bad for who? For you? Certainly not. You still have a life. You get to paddle and ski and bang your girlfriend/wife. For the kids riding around waiting to explode for 15 months and especially for the ones that do I can assure you it's all bad.
War is certainly good for one thing: business. Obain a copy of "Why We Fight", an independent, nonpartisan film available at sony.com and watch it. Some of your American patriot bravado and naivete may wear off.
CasperMike, you're in a whole six inches wide and a mile deep. Just put down the shovel already and let's bring this thread to a close.
__________________
I hope in the future Americans are thought of as a warlike, vicious people, because I bet a lot of high schools would pick "Americans" as their mascot. -Jack Handy
I do know why we fight, Profit. It's hard for me to believe some one would read that and say "wars are not all bad" like we were talking about some slacker. war is not ok because you are. wrong is wrong. No means no.
No nation gets rich fighting war. Not since Napolean. But to say wars don't have by-products that are "useful" (let's not call them good) is also ignorant of history. The advance of medicine throughout history owes more to the needs of the wounded on the battlefield than any other single source. Modern day trauma success started on the battlefields of Vietnam. Whatever moral judgements you want to make about that I'm comfortable with, but today the elite surgeons of our country are learning more about trauma in Iraq on our wounded than anywhere else in the world. I'd rather they be learning about it in car accidents than in the theater of war, but I'm not going to say it's not beneficial to learn these advanced life-saving techniques wherever the knowledge can be gleaned. The medical advances do not justify the stupid war.
Another thing that has always irritated me is when people say "War never solved anything." While it's true the war in Iraq may not be solving anything for the United States, war, and violence in general, has "solved" more issues than all other means in human history COMBINED. That's just history. That's just the nature of my species.
I work in the military industrial complex. My company makes money on the materials we use for warfare. I'm not sure what exactly we're making money on in Iraq (we run satellite systems), and I'm sure we help protect guys in the field. I feel good about that, and I'm not going to begrudge a capitalist economy. That's the system Western civilization is comfortable with, and the one that works. There's a difference between profit and profiteering.
That being said, I'd still like to point out that I want to bring those soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen home as quickly as safely possible. And I don't care that it could cost my shareholders some returns, either.
__________________
Remember the dollar value to human life. Mine is priceless. Yours is negotiable. - unknown
I will try to answer the original question... keep in mind this is just my own opinion and some added information I have gathered from different readings. I am not hear to debate --no repliesfrom me --- and write what you wish about my opinion...It WON'T change and nor do I ask you to change your opinion.
I think Bush is "for" a certain part of America - the wealthy ruling class.
He vetoed this bill because it goes against the conservative philosophy. So many progressives and liberals increasingly point to Bush's failures and label them as imcompentence. As satisfying as it is to say that Bush is a moron and is completely incompetent it unfortunately misses the bigger point. Bush's disasters (Katrina, Iraq, budget deficit) are not so much about imcompentence or failure. Rather, they are more of a natural result of his conservative governing philosophy. It is the conservative plan itself that is at fault. The conservative party wants us to think he is a bumbling idiot. It deflects the criticism of the conservative agenda and places the blame on a "so-called idiot." If Bush and his admin are stupid and incompentent then why is it that they have accomplished and implemented so much of their conservative philosophy? If the Bush admin are incompetent how was it that they fooled nearly an ENTIRE NATION and a good part of the world about Iraq before the invasion of 2003?
Here are a few examples of the huge successes of the Bush admin:
- Centralizing power within the executive branch to an unprecedented level.
- Started 2 major wars, one with faulty intelligence and downright deceit.
-Placed 2 far-right Supreme Court justices and stacked many more on the lower federal levels.
- Cut taxes during wartime, an unprecedented thing.
-Passed many controversial bills, such as the Patriot Act, No Child Left Behind, The National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive (A VERY SCARY ONE.. look it up), Suspended Habeus Corpus,
-Rolling back and refusing to enforce regulatory protections.
-appointing industry officials to oversee regulatory agencies (EPA, FDA)
-Establishing a greater role for religion through faith-based initiatives.
-Was re-elected. If your administration can keep themselves in power of one of the biggest empires the world has seen... then you are not incompetent. BTW-Many of these same Bush admin people have been in power since the Reagon Admin.
The CONSERVATIVE AGENDA. It has 3 fundamental tenets:
1) Individual initative, gov't role should be minimized outside of military and police.
2) President is moral authority
3) free markets are enough to allow freedom and opportunity.
The conservative vision is to "starve the beast" or shrink the gov't. The conservative rationale is that "you can spend your money better than your gov't can." Social programs are considered unnecessary since the primary role of the conservative philosophy is to defend the country and police it's interior. Things like Health care and Energy policy is left to individuals and the "free market." Given this philosophy is it any wonder that the gov't was NOT there for the victims of Katrina? This philosophy also sheds light as to why these conservatives don't believe in global warming. If they did they would have to implement regulations for environmental protections and so forth. Regulation goes against their philosophy and against the "free market."
As to the budget deficit. This is not incompetence. What better way than massive deficits to get rid a social programs because well.... "We just don't have the money for these programs anymore. Our national security is much more important than education and the health of our children." The deficit that the Bush admin created through massive tax cuts and a costly war will require drastic budget cuts to fix. As we all know these cuts will NOT come in the form of cuts in military spending. Nope... the budget cuts will come out of programs like FEMA, OSHA, FCC, EPA, etc. A huge success for the conservative philosophy.
IRAQ... I just can't debate this anymore until more people educate themselves on the issue and see beyond the lies of the Bush admin and the complicit deception of the American Mainstream Media. Part of the problem arises from a form of arrogance called "American exceptionalism." Howard Zinn wrote, "Our citizenry has been brought up to see our nation as different from others, an exception in the world, uniquely morale, expanding into other lands in order to bring civilization, liberty, and democracy. (Even though we don't have democracy and are losing freedom and liberty as we speak) He goes on to say that this self-deception started early with the first English settlers. They believed that the killing of Indians and the conquering of lands was approved by God and commanded by the Bible. This self-deception continues into present day. We can't even take care of our own and we arrogantly think we can reshape the geopolitics of the entire Mid-East with military might and the barrel of a gun. Zinn also writes, "One of the worst effects of Nationalism (American exceptionalism) is a loss of proportion. The killings of 2300 people at Pearl Harbor becomes the justification for killing 240,00 people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The killing of 3000 people on 9/11 becomes the justification for killing tens of thousands of people in Afghanistan and Iraq..." (that number may now be reaching close to a million according to recent polls.) And even though you don't see or read about it in our crappy media, the majority of these deaths are innocent civilians. Only the lives of 3000 American people matter, the other million or so of Mid-East people killed just don't matter.
With that I will leave you --- AND NOT REPLY --- with this quote about American gov't from a man named Langston Hughes (this quote of course labeled him as Un-American.)
You really haven't been a virgin for so long It's ludicrous to keep up the pretext... You've slept with all the big powers In military uniforms And you've taken the sweet life Of all the little brown fellas... Being one of the world's biggest vampires Why don't you come out and say so Like Japan, and England, and France And all the other nymphomaniacs of power.
We haven't heard from you for quite a while, Marko. While I don't always agree with you, it's great (and often educating) to see someone posting not just their opinions, but the facts, from reliable sources, on which they are based. It's great to hear an articulate voice in the Eddy every now and then. Thanks.
COUNT
__________________
"The world would be a better place if everyone kayaked."-Brad Ludden (Valhalla)
"You only get one chance to run a drop blind."-DD
Linear Mode
