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Old 11-03-2006   #21
adrock's Avatar
Fort Collins/GWS, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 208


Here is a question for you. Is the 'Buzz Crew' gonna take a stance of control, censorship and conservative values. Are you using our current administration as a roll model?

For instance. That 1 percent post. You guys moved it and changed its title. Groups and thinking like one percent have everything to do with boating. Groups like that keep our rivers clean and free. Right on, sure, give to AW directly instead, I do, but don't put out this message that topics like that are not paddling related. As paddlers, we need more topics like that if we want to keep paddling clean and free rivers.

bb, I am sure you know repression is a very complex issue. I believe that our culture is generally a repressive one mostly due to the nature of our conditioning. We are conditioned to keep our thoughts and feelings inside a certain box of normalcy. We are told by public schools, our parents, the media, our government that we cant express certain views or say certain things. Obviously to some degree you have to filter your words with certain crowds and there is a time and place for every dymanic.

Boatnbike, this culture is repressing, you are repressing. Republicans use repression as a tool for control. Repression creates sickness and sickness creates death. Why do you think America has the highest cancer rate in the world? Yeah, the FDA isnt doing there job to make our food better, but we also hold so much inside us each and every day that it quite literally kills a lot of people.

If this forum and your 'crew' are going to take a stance of censorship, control, and conservative ethics that is your decision, but I dont think it is in anyone's the best interest.

And actually, I already do speak in 'vulgar, obscentiy laced tirades' on occasion, its pretty humorous. I also write poetry.

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Old 11-03-2006   #22
pnw, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,404
Adrock, I can speak for my part of the "buzz crew". The 1% thread did not originate as a discussion of donations. It was a personal question to the owner of the board what his policy was on donating. We moved it since it was a question to us, not the entire board. The change to the title was done to better explain the post but it has been decided that we wont do that again.

"Yesterday I was clever and tried to change the world. Today I am wise and try to change myself." -Rumi
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Old 11-03-2006   #23
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 41
Re: bb

Originally Posted by adrock
Boatnbike, this culture is repressing, you are repressing. Republicans use repression as a tool for control. Repression creates sickness and sickness creates death. Why do you think America has the highest cancer rate in the world? Yeah, the FDA isnt doing there job to make our food better, but we also hold so much inside us each and every day that it quite literally kills a lot of people.
Wow, adrock, I guess you put me in my place. Please continue with your colorful, thoughtful posts. I don't want to be responsible for you contracting cancer. If you think it will help, please post more! Not only will it guard against cancer, but you'll be enlightening us morons who are not as wise as you.

Perhaps you should think about going on a speaking tour to other countries to encourage them not to follow our culture's repressive ways. You could start in Cuba since it's close, then maybe move on to some Middle East countries.

Hey, could you lay some of that poetry on us Brah?
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Old 11-03-2006   #24
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185 lb. waste of space, Keeping Glenwood Springs real
Paddling Since: 1864
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 917
so to get back to the thread and maybe I missed but I was just skimming through all the fourth grade name calling bs that makes us boater look real mature. Maybe thats why so few women boat with us, cause they don't want to wipe our asses for us. Any ways you can support your troops and not the war its logical and doesn't comfort the enemy. However if one wages a war then they had better go balls (or ovaries) out because to win a war you must decimate and destroy the enemy and that is being realistic. Call it genocide call it inhumane (there is no such thing as a humane war) but that is what winning a war is. Instead wea have long drawn out wars that do not accomplish anything so it doesn't look like we are comminting grave inhumane acts. But tell me what is more evil; to destroy a state immedialty and rebuild it or to make all those in the war zone suffer for extended periods of time and watch their loved one die in front of them (and still not win). Name one place that we went to war with and didn't completely demoralize and destroy that is successful now. This bs pussyfootin around special ops crap is not efficient. You want to win in vietnam; napalm everything, you want to win in Iraq(twice) scud them out of existance. How did we win the different theatres in WWII: total destruction. Any one who says there is another way to win a war is so damn ignorant and likes to paint flowers on pieces of dog sh8t that they need to see war first hand and then talk about it. Support your troops:get them the hell out of hell and hope that the iraqis and everyone else that this great country oppresses can forgive us.
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Old 11-03-2006   #25
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 254

YRD - somehow, i do not like your logic. this idea that you espouse, along with some other right wing buzzers on the john kerry (and probably other) thread(s), of needing to kill everyone to win the war, and the Vietnam analogy, do not make sense to me. i'm no expert, and i'm definitely a lefty, but i do not think that America shares your opinion.

I qualify you and the others with this same opinion as quite extreme, and not in step with the rest of the country. I think that you guys belong in north korea or iran or something like that. My opinion is that our country does not believe that killing everyone (military and non) in a country that we are at war with is worth it to "win the war" - further, i do not believe that it would actually work, as we would build more hatred of us in doing this act, and those left behind, and sympathizers would be more prone to continue attacks.

I don't buy your idea that we aren't winning the war because of the media. I think you need to re-evaluate this question. My belief is that we are losing this war because of the current administration: their unwillingness to receive council from people outside their inner circle, unwillingness to work with other countries, mismanagement, improper preparation/lack of planning, and misconception about how we would be received. I think this is a cop out by right wingers to make them feel better about the people and policies they support.

Instead, i believe that you should be looking for other right wing leaders to step in. Find some other conservatives to support who could do a better job. Demand some accountability from your party. I just don't see how you can blame the media, look at your fearless leader man - that's why we aren't winning. For fucks sake, dude, these people will out our own CIA covert spies for transient political gain - and you think that the media is to blame? it doesn't add up.

remember shock and awe - we did go in with overwhelming force. We did defeat their army quickly, and with minimal casualties. Remember GW - the war is over - it was the aftermath that we screwed up.

I think we as a country are struggling with the fact that our superior military can no longer protect us, as technology has made the actions of a small few able to get thru our defenses. I think your thinking is out of date, and prone for more disaster, with the end result being the US fighting the whole world. It is quite a different world than the WWII analogy that you reference. I think this new world will require more diplomacy and communication to avoid death and destruction. I worry that people that think like you will continue to influence policy, and the next century will be filled with disaster caused by this ancient idea of an "eye for an eye", and kill them before they kill you. However, i'm sure that on your end, you're worried that people like me will influence policy and never make a stand anywhere, and osoma will be president someday. I hope both of these scenarios do not occur. Maybe, just maybe, america will work like it is supposed to, and we can come to a middle ground resolution, and find an acceptable course through compromise.

anyways, i am a 30 something dude, have never seen war firsthand, and am definitely "ignorant" about global policy, military strategy, etc. - just my ideas and others from people that make sense to me.

i hope my post doesn't make you so angry that you won't consider these foreign ideas.

anyone know if baily's still going to be up tomorrow?
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Old 11-03-2006   #26
adrock's Avatar
Fort Collins/GWS, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 208

unrealdad, just for the record I boat with ladies all the time. On Occasion, Hot ones, that run CV. The first reason is because I'm lucky, the second is I have a sense of humor and dont take myself too seriously, the third is because I'm not afraid to say what's on my mind, vulgar or not.

Its fairly evident why the ladies don't paddle with you...

THE TOPIC, peace march - right to protest, very american, rad, I'm there.

Iraq, well you dumb fuck, we supposedly already won this war REMEMBER.

IMPORTANT POINT unreal dad. WE started this war!
So let me get this straight, you wanna invade a country on bad intel, then obliterate the people in it. Sweet, thats smart thinkin buddy. We have already killed 2 percent of the Iraq population, asshole. AND you think killing more people is answer, fkna.

poetry: (for boatnbikenstuff)
end the death toll, fuck the troll
bread not bombs
killing wont right the wrongs
I cus at bobber, he looks at bush
with a throbber
bring em home, my brothers
we need change, you mothers
YELL louder, they cant hear us
we godda make a bigger fuss
fuck the neo-cons
they are silly little puppets and pawns
end it we must, eos
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Old 11-03-2006   #27
Meng's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 787
Theres great boating in DC that time of year! I will try to go, so any CO boaters going who want to paddle on the side let me know.
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Old 11-03-2006   #28
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185 lb. waste of space, Keeping Glenwood Springs real
Paddling Since: 1864
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 917
Steve, nice post. It is good to see that people can post decent posts without attacking the other side, the only problem is I am not a conservative, Christian, right wing, libertarian or anything else that the reds get labeled. I am as left as they come without going full circle back to the right and that's how it works folks its not an end or side of a spectrum but a circle with the extremes hand in hand. And yes Steve your right that we need to have our parties be held accountable not just our own but all of them. My point was a sarcastic yet true point I am not saying that we should wipe out everyone, my only point is that is how you truly win a war. (hence we should not go to war) If you notice at the end I state that the troops need to be pulled out and that the U.S. asks for forgiveness. Sorry about the misunderstanding.
adrock, my name is MCA and I got a license to kill I think you know what time it is, it time to get ill now what do we have here, a realdad and his beer, I run this land, you understand I make myself clear. Free speech is great and you can call me a cum guzzling monkey sh&t F'er for all I care but I don't come on the buzz to talk sh*t so lets leave it at that. Now since you live in the fort and I was born in PVH how about we go boatin some time and you can show me all these women paddlers that are boatin the narrows and such. I have ladies flock to me like the salmon of Capistrano yet you must be hoggin all of them. You should show me your trick.
"The direct use of force is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations." ~David Friedman
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Old 11-04-2006   #29
El Flaco's Avatar
Golden, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1984
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,879
How about this protest:


The Army Times, November 4th 2006
Time for Rumsfeld to go

Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld —

“So long as our government requires the backing of an aroused and informed public opinion ... it is necessary to tell the hard bruising truth.”

That statement was written by Pulitzer Prize-winning war correspondent Marguerite Higgins more than a half-century ago during the Korean War.

But until recently, the “hard bruising” truth about the Iraq war has been difficult to come by from leaders in Washington.

One rosy reassurance after another has been handed down by President Bush, Vice President Cheney and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld: “mission accomplished,” the insurgency is “in its last throes,” and “back off,” we know what we’re doing, are a few choice examples.

Military leaders generally toed the line, although a few retired generals eventually spoke out from the safety of the sidelines, inciting criticism equally from anti-war types, who thought they should have spoken out while still in uniform, and pro-war foes, who thought the generals should have kept their critiques behind closed doors.

Now, however, a new chorus of criticism is beginning to resonate. Active-duty military leaders are starting to voice misgivings about the war’s planning, execution and dimming prospects for success.

Army Gen. John Abizaid, chief of U.S. Central Command, told a Senate Armed Services Committee in September: “I believe that the sectarian violence is probably as bad as I’ve seen it ... and that if not stopped, it is possible that Iraq could move towards civil war.”

Last week, someone leaked to The New York Times a Central Command briefing slide showing an assessment that the civil conflict in Iraq now borders on “critical” and has been sliding toward “chaos” for most of the past year. The strategy in Iraq has been to train an Iraqi army and police force that could gradually take over for U.S. troops in providing for the security of their new government and their nation.

But despite the best efforts of American trainers, the problem of molding a viciously sectarian population into anything resembling a force for national unity has become a losing proposition.

For two years, American sergeants, captains and majors training the Iraqis have told their bosses that Iraqi troops have no sense of national identity, are only in it for the money, don’t show up for duty and cannot sustain themselves.

Meanwhile, colonels and generals have asked their bosses for more troops. Service chiefs have asked for more money.

And all along, Rumsfeld has assured us that things are well in hand.

Now, the president says he’ll stick with Rumsfeld for the balance of his term in the White House.

This is a mistake. It is one thing for the majority of Americans to think Rumsfeld has failed. But when the nation’s current military leaders start to break publicly with their defense secretary, then it is clear that he is losing control of the institution he ostensibly leads.

These officers have been loyal public promoters of a war policy many privately feared would fail. They have kept their counsel private, adhering to more than two centuries of American tradition of subordination of the military to civilian authority.

And although that tradition, and the officers’ deep sense of honor, prevent them from saying this publicly, more and more of them believe it.

Rumsfeld has lost credibility with the uniformed leadership, with the troops, with Congress and with the public at large. His strategy has failed, and his ability to lead is compromised. And although the blame for our failures in Iraq rests with the secretary, it will be the troops who bear its brunt.

This is not about the midterm elections. Regardless of which party wins Nov. 7, the time has come, Mr. President, to face the hard bruising truth:

Donald Rumsfeld must go.
I guess this begs the question from our resident neocons:

Why do the troops hate our troops?
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Old 11-04-2006   #30
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 154
I cant believe how narrow minded people can be. Especially boaters.

We cant 'WIN' this war.

BRING THEM HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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