Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-21-2008   #31
Park City, Utah
Paddling Since: 1985
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 700
The truth

Union and management to blame.


Canada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2008   #32
Park City, Utah
Paddling Since: 1985
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 700
The truth

Union and management to blame.

The management damaged the brand integrity wth crap cars. The union resulted in a pay and benefit scale 35-41% higher than the non union US equivalents. Those both caused huge problems.

The straw on the back was the government allowing companies to underfund pension plans. Bush actually demanded they fund them to actuarial guidelines and the companies came back and said it would bankrupt them. They then did a graduated funding to force the funding over time and the companies are now trying to push these pension funds back to the unions.

Funny, the government telling companies not to raid the pension funds of their emplyees when they have done the same thing with social security to all of us under 40.

The reality at this point is we've dug a hole and were all going to need to shovel our way out.

Now we have Obama who ran under the idea of Change appointing all of the Clinton cabinet. The whole cycle infuriates me.

The worste part is the buffs are playing so bad they don't take my mind off of all this garbage.

I need to go skiing.

Finally, the teachers union. It is the number one donor to the DNC. It fights vouchers, and standards. There are good teachers and some that are horribly bad. Unfortunately, we can't fire the horribly bad. We can't force change through vouchers, so we are stuck with a system where mediocracy reigns.

I am pro employee rights, but the UAW and the teachers union have taken it way beyond the robber barron child labor stuff. I thiink the employees in those factories would jump at the chance to have a job and take a 15% cut in benefits and salary. In exchange, They should be given a managment team that doesn't suck.

Sorry about the rant. I'm tired of coming in here every day and seeing I'm going to have to work another decade because of the drop in my retirement accounts!!

Canada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2008   #33
TakemetotheRiver's Avatar
Durango, Colorado
Paddling Since: 05
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,477
Once again, I disagree that the UAW can be compared to NEA. There are bad teachers- I'll give you that- but the union does not protect them. Contrary to popular belief, bad teachers do not stay in the business very long. It is extremely difficult to deal with 100 teenagers every day, and unless someone has a passion for it, they won't put up with the bureaucracy involved with the day to day job. Besides that, good teachers don't like picking up the slack for bad teachers.

The exception here, if course, are those teachers who have already been doing it for 20 years who don't care anymore or can't be bothered to learn new strategies. Their tenure protects them, not the union.

The mediocrity stems from lack of funding, a culture of immediate gratification and selfishness, and general apathy toward education.
TakemetotheRiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2008   #34
Park City, Utah
Paddling Since: 1985
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 700

The school system is the best governmental agency we have. It has many flaws, but it and the military are both very good.

Tenure and the union are intertwined. If I said lets do away with tenure today, who would be the largest opponent to that change. Who is the largest opponent to any meaningful change in the public schools?

The NEA is now all about the teachers and not about the kids. Thankfully, 70% of teachers are really good and in it for the right reason (The Kids).

I'm not blasting you. I love my kids teachers. Blind allegence to the Union is what will now cost thousand of UAW workers their jobs. Our schools are good. I would love for them to be the world benchmark.
Canada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2008   #35
DurangoSteve's Avatar
Durango, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2001
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,907
The UAW is an easy target. Their demands have contributed to the demise of the US auto industry. They helped create a wage/benefit system that is simply unsustainable. The companies are completely complicit.

It "worked" during the post-WWII boom when everyone bought American cars and gasoline was cheap. It "worked" in that it allowed hordes of moderately skilled manufacturing workers to enter the middle class, pay taxes, buy homes and cars... pursue the "American Dream."

Then came the VW Beetle. That was the start of Detroit's undoing.

The Detroit model is based on false premises: endless prosperity continuing to feed the system (including non-productive retirees) and an endless supply of cheap oil. Oops, that sounds like the American Economic Model. Both models have to adjust to harsh realities.
DurangoSteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2008   #36
thornton, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1969
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 600
Bailout banks, auto. industry, and credit card companies, why? Their predatory lending practice (aka. legalized stealing) was designed by corporate C.E.O's to maximize a persons pay so that they must use their savings,college funds, retirement, home equity, etc. to satisfy C.E.O.'s corporate greed. Private jets for family and friends to vacation spots such as Aspen Co.,Jackson Hole Wy. ( up keep on these jets are in the millions not thousands of dollars, I know). I have been in the union for 25+ years. The "management" of a corporation is the "union spoksman" for corpotate C.E.O.'s and without a union for the average worker he/she would not stand a chance against the corporation by themself. (sweat shops come to mind ). The greed of the average union worker is nothing compaired to the greed of top C.E.O.'s. We all want to take vacations with our family and friends also. Give or take, the unions do not put corporations out business. Not willing to give up the jets and vacation mansions do that.

raymo is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Topic Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Now the terrorists want a bailout heliodorus04 The Eddy 5 11-13-2008 04:05 AM
What the bailout is really about lhowemt The Eddy 12 10-06-2008 03:50 PM

» Classified Ads
2016 Demo Starboard Yoga...

posted by 4CRS

This is a used Starboard Astro Dashama Yoga 10' Inflatable...

Liquidlogic El Jefe

posted by CFriday

2008 LiquidLogic El Jefe. Stopped paddling in 2008, been...

2016 Demo Boardworks...

posted by 4CRS

Used 2016 Boardworks Shubu 10'6 Inflatable stand up paddle...

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities

Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:13 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.