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Old 10-05-2006   #51
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 480
Shit, Bush can tap your phone, not like what he hears and label you an enemy combatant and have you "disappeared" and you have no judicial review - ever. That's scary. The poster is great.

Like it or not, all of us are the result of a sexual act.
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Old 10-05-2006   #52
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 855
Mike A. Wow! Nice attack, pal. Little pent up anger in there, eh? And, BTW, you are really good at spinning and distorting my words. You did it in a previous post and you did it here again. Good job! Never once was I defending the terrorists, extremists and violence!! I am defending the other 1 billion peaceful Muslims who are being ruined by the extremists and small minded people. I'm sorry that you have a hard time understanding that. Do you have any Muslim friends? I do. And they are genuine people. To say otherwise IS RACISM.

Re-read my posts and f 'ing get it right! I'm sick of you distorting my words and your attempts to smear me.

Here is an example of my previous post.
Just because a very small minority of “Islamic militant extremists” drag this religion through the mud, does not mean that the other 1.3 billion Muslims want to kill you at any cost unless you convert.

Mike A:
I really don't give a ****what Muslims have provided us in the past, all I can see is who is creating war with their neighbors world over (Indonesia, Mid east, East Europe, Europe, all over Africa, the Americas, etc).
I think you discovered part of the problem right here by saying, "all I can see." Have you ever wondered if your perception is limited? I know mine is. But, I try to expand my perception and understanding everyday because that is how you become a better person. Am I wrong? It's understandable that you think they are all terrorists. If the only thing you see in the media is terror and extremists, then you will definitely think that they are all bad. You should check out the book, Manufacturing Consent by Noam Chomsky. Go back even further and read about Walter Lippmann and philosopher John Dewey's discussions about the "manufacture of consent."

Next: Read the Downing Street Minutes, which was written by US Senator John Conyers. (The reason we haven't heard more about this is because the Democrats won't pursue this until the November elections are over. I know, weak.) This 345 page document is full of proven facts that America was lied into the War in Iraq by the Bush Administration. Go ahead, I urge you to read it. Here is a free PDF download. After you are done, I invite you to come back and tell me that Bush and crew did the right thing by lieing to Congress and Americans to invade a country. And, YES, what he did was an IMPEACHABLE offense.

teamameriwhateva: A Federal Judge just ruled that Bush is violating the Bill of Rights. I'm sure the whole thing is more complex than it seems. But none the less, it's a Federal Judge, not a conspiracist. And, the Avatar is meant to be FUN and HUMOROUS. Lighten up a little, buddy.

Alright, I am done. I have tried to bring understanding and tolerance to the table and I get this shit. So, say what you will. If insulting me makes you feel better, then here you go. There is plenty of room right below my post. Do your best. I'm done with this discussion - Really.


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Old 10-05-2006   #53
Coffee Grinder
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 29
Mike A harsh

And as far as Christians causing wars, wow you could go all the way back to the crusades. Or you could just look at Ireland in the 70s, but my favorites are the Christian Zionists. Good people those folks, they only want to bring about Armageddon and believe that the current war in Iraq is a step in that direction. I think regardless of religion there are just some assholes out there that will use any cause as an excuse for war.

Some modern Muslims that have provided society with something of value in the last 50 years... uh how about John Coletrane, Muhammad Ali, Shaquille O'Neal, Malcom X, Dave Chappelle, Fareed Zakaria, etc. etc.

Oh and if you want some scientific type stuff ask these folks at MIT...

Nice quote... I'll see your Ronnie and raise you a Spaceballs...

HELMET: How many Assholes we got on this forum, anyhow?

ALL: Yo!

HELMET: I knew it. I'm surrounded by Assholes.

Keep typing, Assholes.

Meh this is all too serious here's a video of a guy getting hit in the face with a mentos&diet coke rocket... enjoy
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Old 10-05-2006   #54
caverdan's Avatar
C. Springs, Colorado
Join Date: Aug 2004
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(note to self; cancel ATF hit on Livingston. )
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Old 10-05-2006   #55
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 58

I think Marko's poster is a fair representation.

It doesn't matter if this information was used in court or not, it was still collected illegally. You placed a condition on the poster which was not previously there in order to claim it is misleading.

Does the FBI have the right to search your house for anything it wants without a warrant as long as it doesn't use the evidence in court?

No, and it should be clear that your argument is bunk.

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Old 10-05-2006   #56
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 71

I hope you aren't too upset about this thread. There really is not much we can do about world affairs as individuals, and our time would be better spent paying attention to our city, county and state reps that are in the upcoming election. In the way of world affairs, all we can do realistically is cast our ballets as we see fit and write our reps to explain what matters to us, individually.

Now, for the meat and potatoes. Let's review:

You post a long list of what Islam has done in the past to contribute to the world in a postive manner.

I concur, wholeheartedly. A muslim created Algebra! However, I thought we were discussing the current group of Islamic Fascists that have hi-jacked the religion. That is my concern. The people who would send their children to a suicidal death in the hopes of killing an Infidel. Why would you spend so much time defending the Muslims that we are not discussing? I might as well bring up Mother Theresa's acts while discussing Bush's Christian political influence (ie his vetoing federal funding for stem cell research--the ONLY veto he has used!).

To reiterate, I have responded with current examples of what Muslims have done to create war and death, explaining that this is what is pertinent, not historical accomplishments. I ask explicit questions regarding the Muslims in question. I thought I cleared up my view regarding the bulk of Islam with this statement: "I don't think that this [reprehensible behaviour stated] represents Islam worldwide, but where is the outrage?. The Muslims standing up to this insane behaviour are so few and far between as to be missed entirely." Sorry I wasn't more clear. I don't know that much about the Muslims of the Mid East; I've never visited the area. I don't have friends who are Muslim, either (though I doubt if I did if that they would understand suicide bombers better than I do). There are not very many Muslims in Bozeman (some were set to come here from Egypt, but most of them were deported after they disappeared upon reaching the country!). However, I can't help but notice that there seem to be VERY few Muslims world wide who speak out agains the Wahabis and other militant Muslims. It seems to me that the extremists have hijacked the religion as a whole, and that those who desire peace are afraid to speak out, especially in war torn areas. This is the only explanation for the silence that I can find. If all Muslims felt the way that UBL did, clearly there would be far greater chaos in the world.

Now you say that I twisted your intent. "Re-read my posts and f 'ing get it right! I'm sick of you distorting my words and your attempts to smear me." You think that I care about smearing you personally (and that I have anger problems!)? I could not care less about smearing you. I don't even dislike you (furthermore, I even think your avatars are funny--"super safe" come on, that is funny). What else is funny is your accusation of racism. That is the oldest trick in the book. Let's look at the facts:
1) I clearly stated that I don't believe the radical Muslims speak for the entire community (above quote).
2) If you are saying that ALL Muslims are genuine people, you are truly deluded. I can think of no group on earth that is full of genuine people.

"It's understandable that you think they are all terrorists." In your accusation that I have condemned all Muslims in the world, you have certainly twisted my words, even maliciously (insinuating racism?!?). I hope that it was a simple misunderstanding of my position. Now that I have cleared up any question about my stance, how about if you respond to the actual thrust of my previous post (ie which group is causing havoc worldwide). Please pay particular attention to the question about disarming the Jews in Isreal. This point in particular proves who is on the side of peace. Again, if you were ONLY defending the "honest" Muslims of the world, I ask you why? I don't think that's who we are talking about when terrorists are being discussed. Also, maybe you have more insight as to the relative SILENCE we hear from Islam regarding the attacks by their brethren worldwide.

To the good folks reading this crap, sorry. Rest assured I wasted more of my time typing it than you have had to suffer through reading it. In MT, it is before regular hunting season (quit bowhunting), after reliable backpacking, before skiing, and long after most boating expired (we don't have the damn releases)!
"Government is like a baby: An alimentary canal with a big appetite at
one end and no sense of responsibility at the other."

- Ronald Reagan
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Old 10-05-2006   #57
Golden, Colorado
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,012
Why does everything have to be so black and white nowadays? Doesn't anyone think the truth lies somewhere down the middle? Does any one ever listen to Rush Limbaugh on the right or Randi Rhodes on the left and think "Wow, that's a real unbiased and balanced viewpoint."

Muslims are not all evil. But the typical muslims sure aren't standing up and making their dissaproval of radical islam and terrorism heard. The number of Americans that speak out against our government's actions outweigh the number of muslims who speak out against the terrorists by a million to one. I haven't seen Muslims protesting at mosques that promote radical islam like I've seen Americans protest against the war.

Terrorists who target innocent civilians are evil and should be destoyed, but how many of these "terrorists" are simply poeple who are fed up with getting pushed around by countries with military superiority. If they can't beat us at conventional warfare they they going to fight dirty against unprotected targets.

Iraq is not a war for oil but we sure wouldn't care about the area as much if our oil supply didn't depend on it.

There are no WMD's in Iraq and Bush stretched the truth to justify going into Iraq, but Hussein was thumbing his nose at UN Resolution after UN Resolution that were intended to ensure he had no WMD's and got taken out for his efforts.

Bush stretched the truth about WMD's but everyone else with the same intelligence came ot the same conclusion. Those who say Bush lied to the country and led us into war are the same ones that say he's an idiot. How can an idiot decieve the whole country unless they're stupider than he is?

We created a mess in Iraq, but the inability of the different ethic groups to be peaceable with each other is making more of a mess.

The US shouldn't be in Iraq anymore, but when are the Sunnis and Shiites going to get their shit together and run their own country instead of try to kill each other.

The United States is insensitive to other cultures and has racial issues, but we're one of the most tolerant countries in the world. If the US is as bad as some people make it out to be or anywhere near as bad as the middle east, we would be having all out war between blacks, whites, mexicans, christians, and muslims.

We do not live in a fascist state but the Government sure isn't the servant of the people anymore.

Much of the Christian Right tries to force it's moral views on the rest country, but the people who say all Christians are that way are as misguided as the ones who say all Muslims are evil.

The government is likely using the Patriot Act and phone tapping with noble intentions of preventing terrorism, not to spy on its citizens, but our civil liberties are being eroded and that type of thing is undoubtedly going to be used for less than altruistic purposes in the future if it isn't already.

To give an example of the truth being somewhere down the middle on a similarly devicive topic, medical reasons aside, abortion prevents unwanted children and as a result likely reduces the number of abused children in the world. But wouldn't the world be better if children were wanted and a life or potential life or whatever you consider it didn't have to be ended? Labels like pro-choice or pro-life just let people feel better about their decision and try to make the other side wrong. In fact, both sides i am sure are both pro-life and pro-choice. One's just more important than the other to them with regard to this issue.

Just some thoughts. I'm sure not everyone agrees with them. I'm just saying we need be more honest and less dogmatic if anything we've been bitching about for the last week is ever going to change. Take a stand for waht you believe in but present a balance arguement and you'll be taken more seriously and may actually get someone to listen and change their mind. Then again, probably not. Sometimes its just fun prooving someone wrong.

one last one.
Democrats are wrong, but so are Republicans.
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Old 10-06-2006   #58
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I thought I cleared up my view regarding the bulk of Islam with this statement: "I don't think that this [reprehensible behaviour stated] represents Islam worldwide, but where is the outrage?. The Muslims standing up to this insane behaviour are so few and far between as to be missed entirely."
It's out there, you just won't find it on Fox News.
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Old 10-08-2006   #59
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Armchair QB's

What galls me is that the left has no respect for the 'individuals' they claim to represent. They consistantly presume and assume to know what is best for the American people.

There is a big difference between the Democrats of the 40's, 50's, and early 60's. The Democrats back then were conservative Democrats. Somewhere along the way during the transition period of the Vietnam conflict they became embedded with Communist/Socialist trash masquerading as mainstream Democrats. Since then, the party went way down hill.

The media became a mouthpiece for Republican bashing and shitheads like Michael Moore and Rosie "The Other White Meat" O'Donnell came out of some crack in the ground. Michael & Rosie ought to get together and have children, can you imagine the pups from that litter?

What some of you fuckstick civilian types misunderstand is that you think all of us "right-wingers' believe all Muslims are bad. Au contrare, they are not all terrorists. But a larger and larger faction of their society is aimed into that direction. By and large, they are responsible for more and more civilian deaths and most certainly do it under the guise of ISLAM. They're quite proud of that.

You nay sayers can say what you like, but you cannot come up with any reasonable justification for that. Islam is a backwards religion. The application of Sharia in the modern world is a hideous way to run a society. I would like to know how many of the boater women on here would like to live in a world where they are covered from head to toe, forced to wear a veil, walk 7 steps back of their man and on his left side. Where if they speak to another man without permission, they can be divorced, stoned, beaten, even killed.

You liberals who think you know so well how to run the world, step up and show us your plan. Show us how you will defend a woman's right to abortion, to choose her mate, to live freely. How will you do that under a world of Sharia? Islam is so fucked up that they cannot even get along in their own frigging countries. Shites, Sunnis, Alawhites, and a few more small minorities, all at each other's throats. How do they solve their disputes? They kidnap and torture and kill each other, in between killing Christians, Jews, and Hindus for sport and fun and in the name of all knowing, all holy, Allah.

I would like to see how you liberals fare in the Bekka Valley on a Monday night after the men are all fucked up on Qat and hash and locked and loaded with their Iranian and Syrian supplied AKM's.
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Old 10-08-2006   #60
gunnison, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1998
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what we need to do in the middle east to make it a safe place, and i am not kidding: create a generation of hippies.

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