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Old 09-29-2006   #11
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Thought-criminal, Colorado
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I, of course, am in.

I hope in the future Americans are thought of as a warlike, vicious people, because I bet a lot of high schools would pick "Americans" as their mascot. -Jack Handy
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Old 09-29-2006   #12
Denver, Colorado
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Do your homework first.

boatnbike wrote:
This video twists and spins facts to play upon peoples fears and our government
I believe the Bush/Cheney cabal and the Republicans do a way better job of twisting and spinning facts to play upon people's fear than this video does. Don't believe me... just watch Fox News.

Mark Twain wrote: "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics."

People can twist and spin anything to make it look in their favor. We can sit here on the sidelines and claim they are "conspiracy theorists" or say their stuff is "crap," but unless you go and do some research of your own to disprove them then your "American envy" claim is worthless. And, at least they are actually doing something to try and make a change. Because if you think the American system is peachy clean, then you are deluded. This essay, Greed, is just one great example of the numerous issues America is facing. It isn't a short essay, but it's well worth the read.

IMPEACH BUSH!!! You can sit on the sidelines and bitch or you can help try to make a difference. Check for local rallies in your area on OCTOBER 5th!

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Old 09-29-2006   #13
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The clip is interesting. However, if you think that there is no need to pay income tax, just try not paying it. You would not be the first. I believe in the early 80's there was a movement this way. I know of two guys personally who tried it, and both are still in the hurt bag from their venture. And then of course you have the "Montana Militia." Check some old news clips to see how their effort to give old Uncle Sam the F you turned out.

If you ask me, and I know nobody did, I would say phase out income tax altogether and phase in a federal sales tax. We could abstain from taxing necessary goods (unprepared foods, diapers, etc) and hit all the folks on what they consume vs what they make. This way, we tax consumerism while encouraging making $$ and saving. The old money would get taxed the same as everyone else, too. Imagine not having to have the IRS or their damned code books. Sorry accountants.

As for this drivel:

"your "American envy" claim is worthless. And, at least they are actually doing something to try and make a change. Because if you think the American system is peachy clean, then you are deluded"

Just show us a better system. Ours is not a perfect country, but it's the best one on earth. We may be fat and we may be slow, but in the end give more and help more around the world than any nation in history. Furthermore, our individual opportunities are unparalleled. There is no excuse for a healthy individual not to succeed in the US.

I say let the folks make videos. Micheal Moore makes me sick, but he has his equals on the right. At least this video takes a refreshingly non-partisan look at events, even if the makers wear tin foil hats.
"Government is like a baby: An alimentary canal with a big appetite at
one end and no sense of responsibility at the other."

- Ronald Reagan
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Old 09-29-2006   #14
Denver, Colorado
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I agree MikeA. America has created the best system in the world. Although, if certain politicians, who are in bed with the elite corportists, have it their way, that might all change. (Just watch the documentary, "The Big Buy" about Tom Delay or "Why We Fight" to get a few BIG examples of this issue.)

When I say "it isn't peachy clean" I mean that there is room for a cleaning up of the house or a mending of the bruises - so to speak. NOWHERE did I say that the entire system is horrible or rotten to the core, and in no way was I talking about the people of this nation. That was simply your perception trying to put a spin on what I wrote. Or, maybe I should have s-p-e-l-l-e-d out what I meant by peachy clean.

The problem is that our system has been hijacked by a small minority of power hungry people, and We the People are slowly losing our voice. Either way, one thing is for sure. Nothing will be accomplished about this stuff by writing about it on mountainbuzz. So with that I finished with my 2 cents worth of opinion.

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Old 09-30-2006   #15
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article 1
Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

no not all income tax law is executive, i can find five hundred and eighty seven laws that the congress has passed making income tax a reality.......

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Old 10-01-2006   #16
Golden, Colorado
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How is an income tax "uniform" throughout the United States? Section 9 states: "No capitation or other direct tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumeration hereinbefore directed to be taken." It doesn't say in proportion to your income. Income tax is an unapportioned tax. The 16th amendment theoritically ended the prohibition on unapportioned taxes and theoretically allowed income taxes. Evidently this is open to much debate. Anyway, I think the whole legality of the Income Tax is a minor point in a bigger deal.

I just saw America - Freedom to Fascism tonight. If you have the feeling that something is wrong with our government and this country (lobbies having their way with congress, the patriot act, executive orders, questionable elections, NAFTA, WTO, why the need for National ID's but a refusal to secure the borders) I suggest you see this movie. I don't know how much of the movie is accurate. But I'm sure going to brush up on my understanding of the tax system, the Federal Reserve, and the Constitution after seeing it and before accepting my Nation ID card in 2008 which includes "a common machine-readable technology, with defined minimum data elements (the details of which are not spelled out, but left to the Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of Transportation and the States, to regulate). (This isn't a liberal rant against the Bush Regime... I voted for Bush and supported going into Iraq... then again, can't say I'm happy about it now)

Before you dismiss all this as conspiracy thoeries, ask yourself two questions. How do you feel about carrying a National ID with a radio chip in it? and Did you know that the Federal Reseve is a private institution controlled by the banks and the Government has to pay interest on the money it borrows from it?

Some people may be ok with that. Just be informed before accepting it is all I'm saying.

Woodrow Wilson signed the 1913 Federal Reserve Act. A few years later he wrote: I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men. -Woodrow Wilson

If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks...will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. -Thomas Jefferson

History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance. -James Madison
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Old 10-01-2006   #17
Golden, Colorado
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Found these two things if interested:

The IRS's position:'

The tax protestors' position:

ugh. Thank God I'm going to be boating in Ecuador soon.
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Old 10-01-2006   #18
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You know what I love about how my tax dollars are spent? They help kill more innocent people than the terrorists killed on 911.
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Old 10-01-2006   #19
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two cents....

Ok...I will probably catch shit for this post, so knowing that...

A) we're not a facist country.

Yes we do from time to time pull a few stupid moves in the world, that's inevitable. I like to call it Democratic Evangelicalism. The unfortunate thing is that a lot of the world is not so enlightened as to be receptive of it.

B) Federal Reserve System

Bank, money changers, etc. have always found their way into government and civilian financial systems. Someone has to be the bean counters, they're better at it and are we really all thhat much the worse for it?

C) Income Tax

This one truly sucks, but then if we all did not pay this, what a sad state of affairs the country would truly be in. No roads, no aiports, no welfare, no free flu shots, etc. etc. One of my best friends in life protested the IRS and state tax authorities in Utah. His efforts netted him a loss of almost everything he owned, 13 months in Federal prison, and another year in the Utah state prison. There are some bullies you stand up to a bit more carefully.

D) Conspiracy Theories

They've been around forever. I am quite sure in fact that when Caesar was stabbed to death in Rome that there were theories about his assassination too. Most theories are just that, a theory based upon a loose collection of questionable facts.

E) Politicians

They all lie, no matter their party affiliation. It's the nature of the beast. If you can grasp that, then you'll go far in life.

F) Al-Qaida, Terrorism, etc.

Any of you tree-hugging dolts should realize that it does not matter at this point who or what helped create these monsters. The blame game is a stupid game to delve into. The simple facts are these people need to be removed from the face of the earth period.

Peace y'all....
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Old 10-01-2006   #20
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 58
If this is the "You are not legally required to pay taxes" movie then, yes, there are credible and factual rebuttals available. I read one several weeks ago but I don't have a link. This film is not on the same level as Michael Moore or Bush/Cheney/Fox News. In terms of misrepresenting facts, it is actually much worse. Kudos to you for wanting to do research ...


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