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Old 08-03-2006   #11
Join Date: Aug 2004
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No...Bush is not responsible for 9/11 Just the thousands of american troops and Iraqi civilians that are now dead and dying in Iraq. Oh and the boaters on the embudo. LIAR.

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Old 08-03-2006   #12
pnw, Washington
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Watched the video and the bomb theory would be hard to support because both towers collapsed at the point of impact of the planes. It would have been almost impossible to plant the explosives at the impact point and for the explosives to not go off when the planes impacted.
I think the truth is that they had a good plan and executed it well, we were caught with our pants down and thats hard to accept.

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Old 08-03-2006   #13
Golden, Colorado
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Had a chance to watch the video. Quite the assortment of experts they showcase. A theologian, an electrical engineer, a professor of philosophy, an economics advisor, and don’t forget Charlie Sheen.

I’m a structural forensics engineer and have attended the American Society of Civil Engineers Structures Congress in New York City where the keynote address and several other presentations concerned building performance during the 9/11 attacks. I have a copy of the FEMA report. The video is so full of BS it’s not even funny (especially considering the number of people who are taken in by it).

The evidence wasn’t disposed of. They didn’t save only 200 pieces. It was all taken to four salvage yards in New Jersey where forensic engineers sorted through it.

The video says no detailed study was done of the collapse. The finite element analysis that was presented at the ASCE conference I went to was amazingly detailed and fairly accurately predicted the collapse.

Steel doesn’t keep its integrity until it reaches its melting point. At 1000 degree F (the temperature of an office fire), steel has about 1/3 the strength it does at normal temperatures and will sag considerably.

The 30 foot sections of columns aren’t due to explosive but the fact that the building was erected with columns that were each 3 stories high (about 30 feet).

The video makes a huge point of the explosions on the lower levels including the lobby and the 8th floor. For the towers to have collapsed the way they did due to a controlled demolition, the explosives would have had to occur from top down - not starting in the lobby. If the bombs were planted in the lobby, the collapse would have looked like the Oklahoma City bombing in which the base of the building is taken out and the whole building above comes down in one piece and is demolished as it crashes into the ground - not the top down collapse we see in the towers.

The video claims those puffs of smoke are controlled explosives. A controlled collapse wouldn't look like the window here and a window there blowing out several floors below the collapse like the video claims - those explosions are air escaping the building as it collapses. Also, 40% of the weight of the building is carried by the exterior shell which consisted of 236 14"x14" steel columns spaced 3 feet apart at each level. The amount of explosives that would be required to take these columns out on successive floors would be immediately apparent and would not look like a window here and there blowing out.

The video states no other highrises have collapsed due to fire. This is true. The reason this building collapsed due to fire and others haven't is because of its construction. The designers of the towers wanted column free spaces on the interior. They then used long-span open-web steel trusses to span the column free spaces. (I believe that as a result of the study, the building codes in New York City are being changed to not allow this type of construction anymore.) The exterior shell of the building (as well as the interior core) supports the trusses. The fire weakened the trusses and caused them to pull the exterior shell inward which buckled the columns (like a dent in the side of a beer can) and initiated the collapse (that's why the top of the tower starts to lean to one side before it collapses). And while it’s true that no other highrises have collapsed, countless lowrise buildings and warehouses have collapsed due to fire. If fire isn’t a danger to steel buildings, why spend all the money to put fire proofing on the steel?

While I don't trust the government further than I could throw it, I think there are many other things this administration (and most other administrations for that matter) can be justifiably criticized for.
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Old 08-03-2006   #14
Golden, Colorado
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Originally Posted by marko
I deleted this post for the almighty Andy of Arvada. Please forgive me Andy....I promise I will stick to kayaking only on this website.
Marko, you should have left it up. This isn't the only video floating around with these types of claims. And you're not the first one to have brought them up. Many of the videos make a pretty convincing case which is why they should be exposed for the BS they are. Here's another one that I though was even more convincing.

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Old 08-03-2006   #15
Join Date: Dec 2003
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This video is a sign of the blind, rabid hatred of the Bush admin by "free thinking" individuals. It reminds me of the folks who used to claim that the Clintons had political rivals etc murdered. A quick search brought up this site:

A similar sentiment is in another thread mentioned about home forclosure wherein Republicans are blamed! As stated, there is plenty to discuss about the current administration (and the former, for that matter) without bringing up ridiculous personal attacks and accusations.

"Government is like a baby: An alimentary canal with a big appetite at
one end and no sense of responsibility at the other."

- Ronald Reagan
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Old 08-03-2006   #16
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I saw a documentary put together by the engineers evaluating the collapse. It was very well done but Blutzki's description is the best I have seen. Thanks for a well informed and unbiased account of the details, Blutzki. We need more such fact based accounts of what goes on.

"The world would be a better place if everyone kayaked."-Brad Ludden (Valhalla)
"You only get one chance to run a drop blind."-DD
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Old 08-04-2006   #17
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Colorado Springs, Colorado
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This type of misinformation is exactly why scientists have professional journals with publishing standards. This is purely propaganda based on conjecture by fools willing to sell out the truth for politics. Good analysis Blutski! Much more unbiased than that video.

By the way, did you all know that in the 50s a plane crashed into the empire state building? I think it was a US Air Force C25 bomber. Yeah that Edward M. Kennedy was stirring up coctails back then with an airforce captain. He talked the guy into going up drunk and flying him from Massachusetts to New York. Well, those drunk bastards were in the clouds and too damn drunk to read the instruments, so they parachuted from the plane. This is no shit stuff makes Chapaquitic look like a day at the park. The plane hit the empire state building and took a good chunk out of it. Of course, they couldn't hide this chuck out of the ESB, but they did cover it up. Do a search on a plane hitting the ESB if you don't believe me. Not many people know of the truth behind this "accident" because they wanted to keep it sealed in the archives until old Kennedy met up with his Makers Mark. However, that dumb ass Sandy Berger, you know when he stole top secret terror documents from the national archives, he also tried to nab the cover-up documents of Kennedy's ESB incident. It is also a little known fact that the only reason we know of this is that Sandy Berger had Chipotle and Starbucks for lunch and had to blow out a bomb at the archives - he left the Kennedy ESB documents in the john at the lobby of the national archives. A guard noticed the documents as he entered the john to spray air freshner as Sandy's movement was smelling up the lobby. They did a thorough security review and concluded it had to be Sandy Berger, he was the only one on video entering the mens bathroom. Plus, he left a paper trail: the Kennedy ESB docs with finger prints, unflushed TP with anal DNA deposits, a piece of TP was stuck to his shoe and recovered upon searching his residence(they knew it was from the archives as it is watermarked just like our currency - duh, where do you think all our taxes go), they found unflushed bowel movements with the corn salsa remnents from Chipotle and lastly, he used his credit card to buy the burrito. Man, for being a former security advisor, he is a dumbass. This is no shit facts that the biased media won't publish because Bubba threatened to sick Hillary on them. I mean, I can't fault the guy for eating Chipotle. But I digress, back to Kennedy. Most people excuse Kennedy's slurred speech and awkward walking for just another sign of his booze habbit, but it actually started shortly after the ESB incident. The theory is that he hit pretty hard on that jump out of the plane, poor old fools never been the same. You can take this to the bank because I said it was true and if you need further proof, just let your imagination do the walkin'.
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Old 08-04-2006   #18
pnw, Washington
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until old Kennedy met up with his Makers Mark
nice turn of a phrase, i like that one.
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Old 08-04-2006   #19
Arvada, Colorado
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Originally Posted by marko
I deleted this post for the almighty Andy of Arvada. Please forgive me Andy....I promise I will stick to kayaking only on this website.
I don't know why you islolated me. I thought blutzski's "colanders on the head" was a bit more harsh than my "buy the falling apart house" comment.

I thought they were kind of funny myself.


I see no reason why you should have taken your post down.
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Old 11-17-2007   #20
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
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levels of conspiracy

just stumbled upon this thread way belatedely,here's my take;there are at least 3 main levels of conspiracy on ridiculous,one plausable,one amply supported by mountains of evidence
1]The Bush adminisration orchestrated 911,ridiculous{although I wouldn't put much past them}The structural engineer that built the towers explained how the cross supports heated up compromising thier strength sagged and pulled in the outer walls creating the impression of an implosion.I don't know about building #7,but the rest of these assertions are so weak it is dubious.
2]Once the planes being hijacked was established,air defense deviated from normal protocol,theoretically on orders from above{Bush/Cheney},to give them the pretext they needed for expanding executive powers and war profiteering,there is some evidence of this but debunkers as well.I think it unlikely they could maintain a cover up of that magnitude,and logically they would have no idea what was going on ,unless they orchestrated it.
3]Once 911 happened they siezed the opportunity to exploit it; to broaden executive powers,profiteer of war contracting,assault civil liberties,gain a 'petrie dish'[Iraq} for their neocon /supplyside economic philosophies,gain more control of middle east oil supplies ,secure pipeline easements for Azerbijani fields,etc,etc ad nauseum.They exaggerate the threat of terrorism to the nth degree and made absolutely no effort whatsoever to examine or address the context of events or the real underlying causes.The New American Century {rightwing thinktank,what an oxymoron} philosophy has statements to the affect that such an event could springboard their ambitions long before this happened.Iraq had very little to do with the war on terrorism until WEcreated chaos there.Afghanistan was/is a legitimate action,but clearly is a lower priority for Cheney/Bush.Furthermore even if Iraq was justified{it's not} has THERE EVER BEEN MORE BUNGLING ,CORRUPTION,AND DEEP DAMAGE TO aMERICA'S ALREADY TARNISHED IMAGE INTERNATIONALLY???
one guys 2 cents
the real underlying causes; a legacy of overt colonialism supplanted by the more insidious modern form coporatism,propping up innumerable tyrrants willing to do our bidding,for a cut,at the expense of their own people,unfettered favoritism of Israel for 60 tears,third world man has no recourse to his grievances= no USSR to turn to {misguided or not it was the PREScRIPTION for their sufferng} can't appeal to the UN because US is a permanent member of the security council with veto power and ALWAYS sides with Israel.Instead we get"they attacked us because they hate freedom" something you would tell a 4 year old!!!Get ready America is abouy to get closelined off our high horse and shows NO INCLINATION TO GET REAL,SAD WE COULD EASILY BE SO MUCH BETTER.Lets start by kicking these greedmongering redneck simpletons out of office and getting publicly financed elections with real debate!!!!enough

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