on my loop this morning it broke on me twice in the trees. The corn snow before the heavy powder on top of last weeks wet heavy base is really unstable.
Thanks for posting the warning but where are you talking about? You're referring to "Wasatch" which makes me thinnk of Utah (Wasatch Front, Mts.) and your ID is "Canada." Are you talking about Colorado BC?
Thanks,
-AH
__________________
Nothing in the world is more yielding and gentle than water. Yet it has no equal for conquering the resistant and tough. The flexible can overcome the unbending; the soft can overcome the hard. - Lao Tse
What loop? Where? What aspect? What was the pitch? How long was your "loop"? Were you skinning? Were you cross-country skiing? Were you skiing when it broke? If you were skinning was the snow talking to you? Whoomping noises with each kick/step? What altitude were you? What were the temps? Did you dig a pit to study the layers?
I personally thank you for the general warning but could use some more specific info to find out exactly where you are writing about. Where was the slide? Again, what aspect? Did they cause the slide or did it start above them?
This web-site/thread could save some lives and we should do all we can to help each other with information about the hills we're skiing. Sure there will be those who push it a bit too far but with specific info we might be able to help some folks make it to the next paddle season.
Thanks again for the post and I'm sorry you were "right". For some reason the sentence bothers me... "two dead, sucks to be right." Maybe it's just where my head is right now.
I think the general warning is enough. If Canada said: "big cottonwood loop, north side, 35 degree pitch, it broke when I farted, and the snow was singing to me..." would that mean that all other aspects, loops, pitches are safe?
To me the warning means nothing more than a reminder to be suspect of every pitch/loop/altitude/etc... We should all be assessing the avi danger every time we go out. Who cares what anyone tells you on the internet. Who knows, Canada could be a avalanche forecaster or totally clueless.
I ski the backcountry most nights. I do so in the morning or at night after I get my kids to bed. The fact that I do so alone, and at night means that I knowing take some substantial risk, which I mitigate by route selection and snow forecast. Mut's comments are pretty right on. I'm somewhere between a gaper and a know it all. I am not a backcountry guide, and while having training, most of what I know has been through experience.
I would find it condescending to have someone say don't ski in X location, so I didn't. I pointed out the strata in the snow I experienced, and pointed out that it cracked on me twice. It was bad enough that I thought I should mention it here. I generally hike out in one of four places near our home.(Park City) I chose where I hike based on the conditions and what I want to hit that night. I don't advertise for a number of reasons that could include legality of access, desire to limit the number of parties tracking where I access, lack of knowledge of the law on access related to ski area boundaries after dark, lack of knowledge on access to un-posted private property, etc.
The sound of the snow is a strange question to me. My limited experience is that when you hear it, your already in a bad situation.
Your final comment seems to imply that I'm sort of a sadistic bastard. I hope I am not. I think it really does suck that this weekend sons saw their father buried and killed on a snow mobile. I think it really does suck that a guy in his thirties from grand junction is dead and an 11 year old is in a comma in the hospital after skiing in bounds at the canyons.Those things suck and cause us to reflect on and measure the risks we take.
I think there are two types in the backcountry. Those who are educated, and take risks knowingly, and those who are there in pure ignorance of what the risks are. The former would read my post and say, today I will make sure I watch what I'm doing a little more than usual. The latter wouldn't read my post.
I don't know what more I could have said of value in my original post?
Once again, thanks for posting the alert. It would've been more helpful if you'd added a bit more info on specifically where your warning was for. For example, "Wasatch Mts, Utah, near Deer Valley" would've been good for those of us not in the know about the Wasatch.
Thanks,
-AH
__________________
Nothing in the world is more yielding and gentle than water. Yet it has no equal for conquering the resistant and tough. The flexible can overcome the unbending; the soft can overcome the hard. - Lao Tse
[quote=Mut;83171]I think the general warning is enough. If Canada said: "big cottonwood loop, north side, 35 degree pitch, it broke when I farted, and the snow was singing to me..." would that mean that all other aspects, loops, pitches are safe?
thanks for the two cents but I don't think that someone telling me the specifics of their trip would mean that all other aspects would be safe. It's just nice to put a place to a story. I really don't care about the snowpack in Utah to be quite honest. It tells me nothing about the snowpack where I ski. And you're right that general warning is sufficient... but the orange signs that say BC skiers be aware of avalanche danger do just the same.
I like specifics. Maybe it's because I'm an English teacher... who knows. If Canada said "big cottonwood loop, north side, 35 degree pitch, it broke when I farted, and the snow was singing to me..." I'd take a toke or two, sip my bourbon, and think back to all the tours I've taken around there then laugh at the fart comment.
I'm not looking for someone to tell me how the conditions are. I'm out there enough and can do that for myself and no I don't rely on what I read here or anywhere else on the net for that matter. I really don't care if he's a gaper, a tour-on, or a forecaster. I just want to read about his, or anyone elses experience/s. I don't have much for entertainment this winter so when I get a chance to get on this site I like to read what others are up too. If your going to take the time to make a post why not add a few specifics.
And yes Canada if the snow was talking to you (whoomping) on the skin then it's a pretty good sign that things aren't so good. The question was a way for me to assess your ability. If it was settling while you were skinning and you paid no attention then set off a slide I'd assume you were a gaper or careless. A little more info helps the readers understand who you are and from where your coming.
And as far as the uneasiness of the "two dead... sucks to be right" sentence... I wasn't implying that Canada was sadistic, to be honest, I read it more as a know-it-all than anything else. I was just stating that I was bothered by the sentence knowing full well that I was opening myself up to come-backs. But I was just curious what others thought and put it out there to see.
And yes I read the strata report but was curious if I read it right? The base came last week, then corn snow on top of that, then heavy, wet, pow. All of this in about a week? I was just curious as to how far down it was actually fracturing. And as far as the legalities of where folks ski... I don't expect to read what ropes were ducked or anything THAT specific.
"Peace sells, but who's buying?" Sorry, just rockin' megadeath.
So, Thanks for the feedback.
I post a friendly warning on a Friday after skiing on some private property via trespass. One party asks for clarification on Monday, and I say what mountain range, and mention the deaths that occurred over the weekend.
You then throw out a caveat of "I don't know if it's where my head is at , but ", blah blah. Summarizing. Your a heartless bastard know it all for saying people died. I then say, wasn't trying to be a heartless bastard, but here are some more facts.
You then say, I'm just putting it out there, and then amply I am a gaper know it all. Here is something that will cast even further doubt on my credibility. The corn now put down a layer of about 5 " and then the 15 to 20" above it, were in the same storm. I must be a liar.
You then say, I won't even be skiing the Wasatch, but, I'm just putting it out for others comments. You are a supreme tool.
So let me be direct. Within a mile of where I trespass on a private ranch to catch some fresh powder, two people were swept into an in bounds avalanche and one is died the next day. I posted a warning, and while my response saying this sucks may appear cavalier to you, you are a tool. The next time I see a snow pack like I did, I will post another warning. You are a tool.
Judging from your bio, you are a very lonely goat herder who put down the bong long enough to make the personal attack on me. You are a tool. May I suggest you run up to Laramie now that all of your goats and KY are used up. I think they probably can restock you. While you’re at it, get some more m-80's and maybe the latest version of dungeons and dragons to help you through the winter. You are a tool. May I further suggest you attack my spelling and grammar errors. It will help you pass the winter and they are plentiful. It will also cast further doubt on the credibility of anything I have to say. You are a tool.
I can't fathom why my saying the snow is dangerous, and then pointing out that having 4 people be buried and three die over the next five days raised your ire, but you are a tool. You cast doubt on the credibility of what I had to say by implying that my statements don’t make sense, but the facts indicate there may have been a reason I posted the friendly warning. You are a tool.
As I reflect on the twelve years I've been addicted to this site, you are the best example of why prior sites like Ed Lucero's had to be taken down. You put up a personal attack but then attempt to say, but it isn't really personal, just where your head is at. You are a tool. I’m sure your mom convinced you that you really are the coolest thing on earth, and by living in hick town surrounded by burn outs, you have built yourself up as just that in your little world. You are a tool. (This is in no way meant to reflect on the ranching community in the area. They are hard working salt of the earth people who probably are pretty frustrated with you and your followers.)
I'm not just putting it out there, you are a tool.
I on the other hand am a hothead, who couldn't just let this go.
Thanks, now I feel better.
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