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Old 12-19-2010   #11
Kayak/SUP Instructor
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The High Ground, Colorado
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,325

The poncho liner is essentially a quilted rectangular bag liner that is much more versatile. Combined with a poncho it makes a great ultra light summer sleep system. I'd say stick a poncho liner in your zero degree bag and try it out. I'll bet you gain 10 more degrees with it.

"Let us cross the river to the other side and rest beneath the shade of the trees." ~ Last words of Thomas Jonathan ''Stonewall' Jackson
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Old 12-19-2010   #12
sparky's Avatar
Ft. Collins, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2002
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 48
SO my theory is that you want to trap air in, while allowing perspiration to leave. (I am not a big fan of vapor barriers for sleeping systems) I have several bags that I have accumulated over the years. my zero degree bag is a brute! I am trying to do some long distance hiking in "fun" conditions and trying to reduce the weight as much as possible. in that trying to multi-function my gear!
I always take a camp Jacket, usually a 800 fill down moonstone, and fleece bibs to sleep in. I also have an exped dreamwalker sleeping bag that doubles a a very warm vest at camp! I have been using it for a liner in really cold conditions. My reason to try to double up on the bag is to create more air entrapment with less bulk. that was my thinking on using two lighter bags. both my summer bags would weigh in at around 2 to 2.5 pounds and compress a lot more than my zero bag.

Randaddy, dude Golite makes some amazing gear. I just got a golite caddy Synthetic jacket and it is awesome. it is a little heavier with all the zippers but I love that you don't have to take it off when hiking because of the great ventilation. I just wish it had a hood and thumb holes in the sleeves to retain more heat.

I am going to look into the poncho liner. see if that will make any difference.

I have to admit it becomes addicting when you start to cut weight out of a pack. it is a very freeing thing, but expensive with all the cool gear out there.

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Old 12-19-2010   #13
Carbondale, Colorado
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 317
Originally Posted by Redpaddle View Post
I have to second glenn here and say that I think layering bags isn't a good option. While I think they would definitely add insulation I think the compression of the loft you would get by layering would reduce their insulation but also, my experience has been that the relationship of insulation to temperature probably isn't linear i.e. if you want to get a zero degree bag, you can't add two 30 degree bags together, then to get a -30 deg bag you just need one more 30 degree bag! Some braniac engineer out there can explain it better I'm sure.

also, sleeping in a bivy in these conditions is rough (as you found out!) a tent will give you a pocket of air to warm up a bit more, if you can get it set up.

Have slept in quinzees a few times and they definitely beat a tent or bivy if you have the time to make them (but solo I probably wouldn't try). Also if you're climbing to 13,000 feet though, you will be plumb exhausted trying to make one.

I have not been impressed with the bag liners, they don't do much for me. a hot water bottle in your bag helps a bunch though.

My best suggestion would be to try out some combinations in more tame environments (camping closer to your car and/or with other people) before you head out to the high country. A warm snuggle bunny is always a good option too, and free!

good luck and stay warm!

A warm snuggle bunny IS always a good option, but they tend to be the most expensive/maintenance intensive pieces of gear.
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Old 12-19-2010   #14
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Newport, Oregon
Paddling Since: 1989
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 206
yeah, good point, maybe just get two cheap ones and layer them on top of you then
"Paddle silently, boof loudly"
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Old 12-19-2010   #15
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The High Ground, Colorado
Join Date: Mar 2008
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The last couple of paragraphs of this page explain the theories About Us
"Let us cross the river to the other side and rest beneath the shade of the trees." ~ Last words of Thomas Jonathan ''Stonewall' Jackson
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Old 12-27-2010   #16
Louisville, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 520
I have a 15 and a 25 degree bag, one shorter, one longer. When I am winter camping I often take both. They have served me well for many years, and pack down to nothing. On a mountaineering trip years ago a friend said, "If you aren't wearing all your DRY clothes at night, you brought too many clothes".

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