Doesn't seem likes much has changed with you since you were calling people out for not winter camping earlier this fall.
I will speak for myself only here and you can take my words with a grain of salt. I tried telling you earlier that you could find some "bro's" over here off Berthoud Pass to do some of the things you want to do.
To tackle torres and greys in mid-winter when the avy deaths have already surpassed last years totals (22 total last year, 26 already this year) is respectable and not so crazy as long as you have the experience and equipment needed. It's a feat that a few close friends and climbing/skiing buddies could tackle. Guys who have a connection and can predict, confidently, the moves of his other friends. Not much talking or explaining needed. You following me here. They aren't sitting on the side of a mountain introducing themselves and playing the "my name is ____ and I'm a mountain man" game. Don't think for a minute I want to attempt something like this with someone I don't know.
As far as your gripes about lack of beta... c'mon. If you want to meet me in Winter Park I'll give you all my notes, books, and maps and draw you the exact line you should take... including hwy directions. I'll even help you set up base camp, plan meals, whatever. I'll bring along my scopes and communications so I can sit at base and keep constant contact. Just call me the expedition leader. I'll arrange for a climbing partner for you. You just meet us in Frisco and we'll take car of the rest... I may be a bit harsh here but you get my point. There is nothing better than going out and gathering your own beta on recon missions. Sure a few pointers from the pro's are always helpful and nice but if the pro's aren't telling you what you want to hear then what? Just don't disregard what the pro's tell you even if it's not what you want to hear...
These folks who have been warning you are out there everyday... just as you say... warning you while they're playing. Just realize that these folks have been out here for years and are intimate with these places. How else can someone know there are slides in odd places. Just because they are out there doesn't mean they're taking the risks that you are talking about.
If it's someone to say yeah I'll do that with you, that you're looking for, try hiking a few passes and getting to know some folks. Or starting a thread that begins with a few easy, orientation days, with the intentions to working up to something serious. It's tough to get folks to jump straight into a fire without a few warm-up laps... especially around here. Most these folks are well seasoned and have seen many kids come and go. I'm not telling you what to do. I'm just giving you my observations and input. Steamboat is having a banner year. You could have some guys meet you up there to ski and talk about bigger mountains and other plans.
Just understand that mountain folks aren't the most social bunch. They tend to be a bit crusty and protective. I understand you get a bit frustrated with the scene and let the fingers fly a bit on the keyboard but calling out the same folks who are trying to give you good beta isn't going to help your cause. No one wants to give you much beta becuse we all know in the back of our heads that you could get killed and we don't want that. "Well the guy on the buzzard said..."
If you want to send the thing do it. Don't count on others to help.
thanks for the good input. Skied Aspen Highlands friday and that place was sick!
I find this difficult balance to play. People like y'all talk about how sketchy the backcountry is, and yet, you go skiing. As I sit mainly on my couch typing about getting it done, and only actually do once or twice a season in the institutional setting I find a conundrum in place. There is always a reason not to go. The snow is too sketchy, too cold, too warm, too many people, bad equipment... The reality is that people die. We lost two in bounds this year. Vail lost two only a little off the resort. Sledders, who knows how many this year. It was the inbounds people that really got to me. They weren't trying to prove anything or be core, they were just ignorant and had bad luck.
All I can say is that I may die as well. But I have a gut that tells me when to turn around, what is safe and what isn't, and I've made my peace with the fact if my gut is wrong I'll go out doing something I truly love. Want to talk about sketchy shit... try soloing 5th class rock or ice, or dropping a 5th class waterfall.
It amazes me that only one person responded wanting to go. The rest told me it was sketchy. Windwaterrock... thanks I really appreciate your response. As for the rest of y'all I appreciate the conern, but really despise the lack of specific beta. You guys are like the crew that sit at the put in of a 5th + class drop telling the dude about to drop it how sketchy it is, while you have no intention of dropping it yourself cause you dropped something else upstream. That's fine, but if your going to do something why not run safety at the bottom of the drop.
I like to think of them more as the climbing rangers or patrollers who have done exactly what you're looking to do. They are concerned with your safety but more concerned about their friends who work search and rescue who will have to risk their lives to maybe find you.
After reading your post a few more times I must apologize to you. Anyone who can solo 5th class rock and ice or drop a 5th class waterfall surely can handle winter conditions on greys and torres. Look it, my slide story was really just that. A story for entertainment and maybe some useful knowledge. If you want to talk about the extremes bra then come on over and buy me a beer. I'll tell you what it's like taking turns carrying a man down the north east ridge of Everest from about 27,000 ft. on our backs or about my lead guide who took the brunt of an ice avalanche while pushing clients out of the way. Or how about the time when 4 out of 5 of my rope party fell into a crevasse. Or the best. My mentor dying while out touring on Shishipangma on an easy acclimatizing day. An avy from way high up nailed him.
Look it. I've tried giving you some friendly advice and it feels like you took a bite out of my hand. I'm old and crusty and have wasted too many days in the mountains with guys who had attitudes like yours... "i don't see anybody else so I must be the only one X enough to be out here" Good luck with your future and I hope I run into you around Agnes... yeah I play around the same hills you do. I'd love to meet a guy who solos 5th class stuff... a real mountan man.
I was working on a book about George Mallory and Sandy Irvine but I might put that on holf for a book about you.
Get the Dawson guidebook for beta. The beta in there will tell you to wait until spring too.
People are bc skiing all over, but the smart ones are staying on mellow slopes below about 32 degrees. I'd think about a mid-winter Grey's/Torrey's attempt when the CAIC lists the danger at moderate above treeline, but not today and definitely not with a stranger.
Regarding the E. Vail slides: that area may be close to the resort, but that terrain is every bit as gnarly as the bc elsewhere in the state. I was skiing out there on Sunday and I was pretty creeped out by the number of natural slides I saw. Don't assume that because those lines are close to a resort that they are any safer.
I wouldn't really trust the "gut feelings" of "some dude I met on the internet". I DO trust the CAIC, snowpits and group of strong, confident ski partners I've had for years.
my comments about soloing rock only are to say that death is close... I'm more afraid of avalanches then a sunny day on some low 5th class climb solo. But again I'm spinning out.
Rmpede, thanks for your concern. based on your lengthy response I can't fault you for caring. And about camping, I have 4 weekends since Christmas. The snow pack is sketchy. They dropped like a ton of bombs at Aspen Bowl the other day, and I can obviously see why.
I do have people to ski with. Looking for more, particularly weekend warrior types, cause I can't rock midweek. Most of the people I know ski off of sleds. Most of the people I know ski midweek. Most are not climbers.
I bummed you can't go too rmpede. I wouldn't mind a good trip leader. You could carry the stove and food, and put my crampons on for me. Are you for hire? I'd also like someone to drive for me... Look man I'm glad you care, seriously.
You have to keep in mind, those of us who DO spend our days out there in the BC see douchebags galore who are probably pretty close to being competent, but not quite. I had a guy who I had seen in my backyard many times set off a slide right as I was telling his group maybe 3 people on one face was a bad idea, he buried a friend & found out none of them had beacons (I was the only one that went to dig him out, his buddies ran away). I thought since he spent as much time up there as he did he would know his sh*t, nope.
There are MANY (MANY,MANY) people in this state who have the ability to ride grey's/Torrey's mid winter, but finding ONE guy who I'd trust to run that type of terrain with is a tough search. If you want to find the type of folks who will run that stuff with you, if they say yes without meeting you, they're not the people you want with you!
because I am normally a solist, perhaps due to my abrasive personality, my theory is a few somebodies is better than nobody.
There are people out there that are retarded, yes. Often these typese try to come off as though they are experts. It happens in all sports, but ours is dangerous and, like climbing, one in which we do DEPEND on our partners. It seems my huberous is taken as such.
But I do not need to beat people down to lift myself up, and in this literal forum, I will give people the benifit of the doubt. So I do not need to tell someone with ambition, I do not know, they are irresponsible and going to die. I appreciate the warnings, I'm not going this week. My post did not set a date. Perhaps because of a changing snow pack and weather conditions... was that an accident...???
I'm growing tired with these forums. All I am trying to do is reach out to people to find partners. I'm not looking for online battles. I thought my story about the aboloni divers paid omage to those giving advice. Perhaps y'all thought I was saying I was a gaper, I dunno, but I wasn't.
Like I said before, I'd rather be the old fart going with the newbies as a protector than take the role of someone telling others not to go at all, because I am core and better.
Anyone want to fire up The Magic Line on K2 next month. No experience neccessary!
If you took offence to my post, I just want to say I meant only to say that I find it best to get to know a BC partner for a while before you put it on the line with them. That said, my first time with one of my buddies was Dead dog in oct a few years ago, he was my best bc partner's other bc partner & he said he trusted him with his life & then some, so of we went. EPIC DAY.
You think it's bad on here?? Go check out TGR, I stop by once or twice a year just to laugh at the d*ckwavers & holier than thou's, this forum is cordial & touchy-feely in comparison.
Find a few guys to run berthoud with, then decide who you want to trust with your life.
So, K2 huh? What's airfare this time of year? Can you get the avy forecast on CAIC? I'm there!
no offense taking man. You're cool. rmpede just needs to get down from the pulpit.
airfare is cheap, but travel through pakistan is sketchy. CAIC says the conditions are extreme on all faces, elevations, the snow pack is rotten, and to stay indoors and pay you electric bill.
Last edited by iliketohike; 02-05-2008 at 08:52 PM..
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