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Old 01-16-2007   #11
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 254
anyone else?

well, not really the convo you're having, but i've noticed that here in colorado, there are ropes everywhere, and lots of ropes, and lots of lines under ropes.

we all love pow - and i do quite alot of rope ducking for pow. 99.9999% of the time, it is an inbounds duck to get some pow, and then another duck back into the area. rinse and repeat.

however, i've noticed that when i have carried this out in other states (utah/wyoming) - i end up above some fucked up cliff with heavy trees below.....

basically, my point is that here in colorado, there are lots of ropes up, to keep people out, probably because of some hazard (gnerally mostly shallow rocks) - but in other states, when they put the ropes up, they really mean it, and ducking is not a good idea.

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Old 01-16-2007   #12
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Summit, Colorado
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Definately. I've found that at the areas I have a good respect for (the more hard core ski areas like A-Basin, Telluride, Alta, Snowbird, Jackson)the ropes are usually there for a good reason and you definately don't want to duck them unless you know what you're doing and exactly where you're going. Places like Keystone, on the otherhand, tend to use ropes to show you where you most want to be .


"The world would be a better place if everyone kayaked."-Brad Ludden (Valhalla)
"You only get one chance to run a drop blind."-DD
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Old 01-17-2007   #13
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steamboat springs, Colorado
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Re: rope ducking

Originally Posted by freeheelintodd
backcountry gates are set by the national forest, not the ski patrol.
if this is true then why does monarch put them at the bottom of the hill and steamboat puts them at the top. seems that the forest service would have the same reasoning, and criteria for placement of gates no matter which ski area they are placing them at.
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Old 01-17-2007   #14
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From what matt says, it sounds like things are different at vail, but here's the low down at keystone. Yes the gates are definitely set by the forrest service and one of the major reasons they are so inconvienent is because the back country is supposed to be just that - back country. If the forrest service wanted to see the amount of skier traffic that is inbounds they would just allow the resorts to expand their boundries.

If you leave a gate, you may re-enter the resort only at the lifts in the base area. The ski area boundries in all of colorado are closed and not leaving through a gate is punishable by a $1000 fine. Same goes for cutting ropes in-bounds. That $1000 goes to Flight for Life/S&R opperations and so you may find that some resorts wont blink at awarding it.

Keystone has had several massive inbounds slides this year - be sure you know where you're going.

On a final note, you can get away with a lot if you definitely know where you're going, bring friends and carry a positive attitude when confronted. Drop the wrong words and you may meet the sherriff at the bottom.

I'm not necessarily defending all these policies, that's just the way they are.

Also, be sure to see the silverton thread on this forum.
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Old 01-17-2007   #15
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Curious as to people's thoughts on a another version of the rope ducking scenario.

How about ducking a rope to ENTER an area after accessing it from the BC outside? Say ski up & over from Montezuma to the top of Keystone, or ski Commando run then down Vail? (Both old, classic routes...) No lift ticket, BC access from a completely different route. Would this require coming in thru a gate to remain within the "spirit" of the laws?

I will say that the patrol at Keystone was "split" on us doing that with a few dogs years ago... One thought it was cool, one was "less happy" with it. The Tuorons were confused... "How do you get the dogs on the lift?" Our relpy: They are 1/2 price
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Old 01-17-2007   #16
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Dale, yes that would violate the "spirit" of the law. You can probably get away with it though. However, you still cannot use any lifts without facing "theft of services" charges, which can be substantial and are always prosecuted when discovered. I'm not sure about the dogs. I would imagine it's ok, but I know the resorts operate under special permits which allow them to ban things such as sledding and in the past, snowboarding.
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Old 01-18-2007   #17
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Snowmass, Colorado
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I'm under the impression that all these rope rules stem from the cost of S&R. Simple solution: privitize S&R. Stuck in the BC? Pony up and we'll get you out of there. You say you're not one of the idiots, did everything right, and still got stuck or injured in a "freak accident?" So what, you knew the risks, now you need to accept responsibility for your rescue or death. Your choice.
"A witty saying proves nothing."
- Voltaire (1694-1778)
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Old 01-18-2007   #18
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Salida, Colorado
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Here is my dream scenario here at Monarch. 1. Put gate at top of ridges with appropriate warning signs, 2. leave old gates at lower points for re-entry, 3. let those who are prepared and willing leave high gates and ski to low gates, 4. jump back on lift and repeat.

As far as increaseing S&R incidents...same as any other backcounty experience. There is nothing stopping gapers from getting in trouble everywhere else...let 'er rip and pay the consequences or buy a COSAR card and don't. Why are those who are able, willing, smart and prepared constantly penalized to help protect Citizen Gape?

with the noted exception of areas where gapers or anyone really can trigger a slide that runs back inbounds, that scenario does not actually exist here at my home hill but does other places I am sure.
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Old 01-18-2007   #19
nowhere, Colorado
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Well said Mike. That would be sweet.

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