Raftus, you make good points, but the reason that these externalities exist is because the criminalization of weed has created an unregulated black market. You don't see the same sort of violence in tobacco fields and whiskey distilleries. Making pot illegal relegates the control of the market to the hands of the "criminal element," who by definition, are not too concerned with following the law. It also provides drug cartels with a source of income that would not otherwise exist if there were a legal market that corporate America could 'cultivate.' Not to mention the billions of dollars in drug enforcement and military support that we provide to Latin American governments that could be avoided with a smarter drug policy.
Exactly. You can't blame a substance for the consequences of its prohibition. They banned alcohol and we got Al Capone and the Kennedy family. Legalize it and the problems go away.
To quote Jack Black of Tenacious D from the song "Two Kings":
"The tyranny and the bullshit's gone on too long...you fucking shrimps who blocked its legalization for so long -- you're banished from the land!"
For the record I am 10X better at Tekken, Ghost Recon and Guitar Hero whilst lambasted and I challenge anyone to a game.
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I hope in the future Americans are thought of as a warlike, vicious people, because I bet a lot of high schools would pick "Americans" as their mascot. -Jack Handy
Raftus, you make good points, but the reason that these externalities exist is because the criminalization of weed has created an unregulated black market. You don't see the same sort of violence in tobacco fields and whiskey distilleries. Making pot illegal relegates the control of the market to the hands of the "criminal element," who by definition, are not too concerned with following the law.
Then using the same logic:
...the criminalization of AUTOMATIC WEAPONS has created an unregulated black market. You don't see the same sort of violence in REMINGTON OR WINCHESTER FACTORIES THAT MANUFACTURE SEMI-AUTOS, BREACH ACTION OR MUZZLE LOADERS LEGALLY. Making AUTOMATIC FIREARMS illegal relegates the control of the market to the hands of the "criminal element," who by definition, are not too concerned with following the law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuzin
It also provides drug cartels with a source of income that would not otherwise exist if there were a legal market that corporate America could 'cultivate.' Not to mention the billions of dollars in drug enforcement and military support that we provide to Latin American governments that could be avoided with a smarter drug policy.
So do I understand correctly that you are suggesting Eli Lilly, Merck and the like buy up family farms so they can sell you fresh, vaccuum packed quarter bags at Wal-Mart?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuzin
...remember when it was illegal for black people to go to white restaurants and schools? Remember when it was illegal for women to vote? Do you make the same argument there? Just go along with the laws, David. I engage in my duty of civic disobedience daily... Was the war in Iraq a good idea, David...
Rosa
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"There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats"
Kenneth Grahame, Wind in the Willows
Raftus, you make good points, but the reason that these externalities exist is because the criminalization of weed has created an unregulated black market. You don't see the same sort of violence in tobacco fields and whiskey distilleries. Making pot illegal relegates the control of the market to the hands of the "criminal element," who by definition, are not too concerned with following the law.
Then using the same logic:
...the criminalization of AUTOMATIC WEAPONS has created an unregulated black market. You don't see the same sort of violence FROM LEGALLY MANUFACTURED REVOLVERS, SEMI-AUTOS, OR BREACH ACTION WEAPONS. Making AUTOMATIC FIREARMS illegal relegates the control of the market to the hands of the "criminal element," who by definition, are not too concerned with following the law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuzin
It also provides drug cartels with a source of income that would not otherwise exist if there were a legal market that corporate America could 'cultivate.' Not to mention the billions of dollars in drug enforcement and military support that we provide to Latin American governments that could be avoided with a smarter drug policy.
So do I understand correctly that you are suggesting Eli Lilly, Merck and the like buy up family farms so they can sell you fresh, vaccuum packed quarter bags at Wal-Mart?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuzin
...remember when it was illegal for black people to go to white restaurants and schools? Remember when it was illegal for women to vote? Do you make the same argument there? Just go along with the laws, David. I engage in my duty of civic (sic) disobedience daily...
Rosa Parks sat on the front of the bus knowing she would be arrested or worse. The Underground Railroad smuggled human beings through hostile territory.
Cuzin, next time you're getting baked in a shack or behind closed doors, and sacrificing nothing more than brain cells, put some real thought into whether your "civic disobedience" should be mentioned in the same sentence, or even thread, as those who made a difference for others through their civil disobedience.
Actually, I'll throw down the gauntlet for you. Make a real difference by sacrificing the money for your next quarter bag and giving it to a charity like Operation Smile - Changing Lives one Smile at a Time or any other charity of your choosing. Not only will you make a difference for a real person, you'll also get to deduct it and thereby short Uncle Sam a few bucks that he'd spend taking out smoke shacks at CB or the war in Iraq.
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"There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats"
Kenneth Grahame, Wind in the Willows
Jason, your logic doesn't work. First, not to get into the whole gun control debate, but most weapons are regulated, not criminalized. I'm pretty sure that even automatic weapons are legal to own, provided that you have a special permit and background check. Otherwise, whatever I was doing with that Thompson the other day was probably not ok.
Second, the effects of drug criminalization is not necessarily transferable to all laws and criminal activity. Is there a huge demand for automatic weapons that I'm not aware of? Probably some, but not nearly as widespread and ubiquitous as the demand for marijuana and other criminalized substances. This incredible demand creates the potential for incredible profits, and thus the incentive to dominate the market and forcefully eject other participants. I just don't think that this applies to the black market for automatic weapons.
Third, I think you are fundamentally confused in your analogy - why would there be violence at Winchester if they don't make automatic weapons? I understood the point Raftus was making to be that your average stoner growing weed on the side is entering a market that is more dangerous than he may perceive. Indeed, this may refute your argument, as the guys who shot Raftus's friends are precisely the element of society that has a demand for automatic weapons to maintain control of the market, and who are purchasing the weapons due to the profits they are making from the sale of illegal substances, that would not otherwise exist if they were merely regulated. Take away the law, take away the problem.
And, yes, I wouldn't mind picking up a quarter sack at Wal-Mart, although I always prefer buying fresh and local produce to support my local farmer. Dank you very much.
What all you are overlooking is the whole control problem. The government has absolutely no control over illegal substance and it is absolutely stupid and short sighted. Every year it is proven that it is easier for kids to get a bag of weed then it is for them to get Alcohol. The simple fact that alcohol is legal and regulated, with enforceable penalties for selling it to underage persons, keeps it with in a reasonable sphere of control. Black market items, are forever out of mainstream control and the government has absolutely little control over who possess it. I would make the argument that if weed was a regulated substance with a minimum smoking age, it could and would be as respected as the minimum drinking age is. It is also proven that smoking weed is more damaging to the developing mind, I.E. kids and teens, then it is to a normally developed adult brain. The effects of weed to the developing mind will stunt the development of the brain, much as alcohol will do the same. We would be much better off socially if we treated both substances the same and could actually keep both out of the hands of youngsters. Remember, it is easier for kids to get a bag of weed then it is for them to get a 12 pack of buttwiper.
The side argument is anything (within reason) is O.K. in moderation. A beer or two is O.K., drowning a 12 pack a day is not. If you are a Dependant type of person, you are going to abuse any thing you might do. Hence the alcoholic will abuse weed, just like they drink to excess. The average person will partake in moderation and will show the same constraint to driving, operating machinery and what not, with out drinking and not toking.
Wake up America, it is long time to start holding the public responsible for their own actions and stop trying to legistrate prohibition. A public that is held to a eoropean standard that you did what ever you did, and no one else holds responsibility for YOUR actions, is a less sue happy public. If everyone that burned their lap for spilling their coffee onto themselves was kicked out of court, then prices for a lot of stuff would go down.
I work as a professional and my client expect me to be sober and straight when I represent them or do work for them. What I do on my own time is known of their business or the governments bisiness. I do not go out and put the public at risk, and as such I can care less what some stuffed shirt in Washington or the Dobson types cares to try and tell me to do.
WOAH! Am I glad I stumbled upon this one! George Bush, reefer, guns, segregation, this is one hot topic!
Thanks for all of your comments, they have made my lazy Saturday worth every bowl I just smoked!
Oh, by the way, I LOVE to snowboard high, but that's just because it remarkably improves my dexterity, balance, and memory. I also like to smoke a fat bowl and play the guitar, hold a baby, or do some important paperwork. Everyone needs to relax; weed is illegal, but Wild Turkey is legal. If you ask me, they should both be legal and available in vending machines. The world is a fucked up place.
P.S. They will never find my smoke shack! It's in an alternate dimension guarded by flying monkeys and wild turkeys.
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