Lost Oar Rig San Miguel - Page 17 - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 10-16-2016   #161
 
Austin, Texas
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Pretty awesome story. I just started the read. Cant wait to hear the end. Going with my instincts, I'm thinking I know what happened. That boat didn't come off by its self.

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Old 10-16-2016   #162
 
Basalt, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by restrac2000 View Post
A caveat, and where i disagree, is using the term victim in this case. I think we devalue terms like victim (even more irked by how people throw around the word tragedy) in situations like these. I dont see Wayward as a victim by definition or spirit.

It may be a good yarn but its coming off as manipulative to me. To say I am skeptical of the intentions at this point is an understatement.
Here here.
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Old 10-16-2016   #163
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by restrac2000 View Post
... Its too easy to jump to conclusion in life and the internet makes it easier.

A caveat, and where i disagree, is using the term victim in this case. I think we devalue terms like victim (even more irked by how people throw around the word tragedy) in situations like these. I dont see Wayward as a victim by definition or spirit.

As well, there is a narrative unraveling to this entire saga that is leaving me uncomfortable with the OP. The thread has reached almost fifteen pages and the story has taken months to share. The innuendo is strong a this point and it seems to involve serious themes that affect boaters across the west. This approach doesnt fit the criticism of the attached link well at all. We dont see someone sharing a story in clear, humble terms (the grizzly gulch duo); the OP isnt being forced to participate in a public arena when they prefer processing it privately; etc.

... But i also think the manner in which the OP is proceeding is just as problematic. It may be a good yarn but its coming off as manipulative to me. To say I am skeptical of the intentions at this point is an understatement.
Phillip, I respectfully disagree with some of the sentiments above. I've only been skimming a lot of the posts and then reading some carefully, however,

I don't think the OP has referred to himself as a "victim" once in the thread, however if his boat has been stolen, then it seems perfectly valid to me. It's others who have made this reference. Also, it's up to the OP to post his parts of the story on his own time. We don't have any right to have him spend the hours typing it up, proofing and revising, etc. on our schedule. I'm just glad to see it coming and don't care that Wayward is doing it in installments. That's his perogative and we should just count ourselves fortunate that he's taking the time to compose a great story for us.

And yes, there are themes relevant to boating in the West that are sensitive, primarily the way flows on the Dolores are completely jacked and riparian trespass from what I've seen. I'm not sure how describing them is a problem - it's just the backdrop. And is for sharing the story with humility, with the boating resume he has, to put it out there that he flipped his boat on that rock seems pretty humble to me. I could've missed something but until called out by Groover69 on his experience, I haven't seen any chest puffing so far in what he's written, quite frankly I've seen the latter.

I'm looking forward to the next installment. Whenever WaywardBoater wants to share it.

Also, if you change the number of posts shown per page, it's only 5 pages

-AH
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Nothing in the world is more yielding and gentle than water. Yet it has no equal for conquering the resistant and tough. The flexible can overcome the unbending; the soft can overcome the hard. - Lao Tse
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Old 10-16-2016   #164
 
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Colorado Springs, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayward Boatman View Post
Dear Groover69:

Not only have I been boating since 1979, I have logged an estimated 25,000+ river miles. ---Multiple runs on dozens of rivers, from the Arctic to Patagonia, including precisely 80 Grand Canyon trips (from rowing it at over 50,000 to motoring it in a 37’ S-rig at 3,000), 60, or so, Cat trips including a dozen, or so, runs over 70,000 (1 as high as 112,000), 40+ Deso trips, 40+ Westwater trips, 2 seasons on The Bío Bío, runs down The Fútaleufu, The Rio Figueroa, in Chile, as well as countless runs all over The West. Almost all of the trips I’ve run in the last twenty years have been single boat, two person trips ----including one such 30-day trip down Grand Canyon, and extended trips down The Dolores, The Salt, The Bruneau, The South Fork of the Owyhee, and all sections below. I’ve run rivers as small as The Escalante and as large as The Alsek. I’ve run in all kinds of craft: hard shell kayaks, IKs, dories, paddle boats, surplus ten-mans, various oar rigs, snout rigs, and 37’ S-rigs. I’ve lined rapids twice, and “ghost boated” some of the nasty ones on the Fu. I’ve flipped a raft twice (both in less than treacherous locations), and swam a couple times. Now, I’ve wrapped once on one mountain creek, The San Miguel, at very high water ---and lost pretty much all my gear.

I am trying to tell a story here for the benefit of all, and any, interested parties ---especially for “noobies” on The River such as yourself. Perhaps I’m a fool, and not qualified to tell the tale ---well, I aim to tell it anyway.

Kind regards,

Wayward Boatman
Pretty impressive river resume WB.

- Jon
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Old 10-16-2016   #165
 
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Colorado Springs, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carvedog View Post
Ohhhh how the righteous indignation of this one is setting up a cluster fuck of glorious magnitude.

Sometime, someplace when you least expect it The River will make sure that you know who is in charge. But after a full season of rafting I am sure you have all this shit figured out.

Until we catch up to you we are all in between swims. Just very recently I was able to put my 17 foot Maravia sideways through a 7 foot entry at Cove Creek on the Middle Fork. Everyone with me was shocked at the screwup first and that I actually deformed my boat enough to get it through.

Pretty funny actually that I cleaned the very challenging first couple of days and then a tiny little rock tap at the wrong time.....and Bam! Chest deep in water tugging on my boat.
Jerry, you are so right. There are daily doses of river humility, both expected and unexpected.
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Old 10-17-2016   #166
 
cedar city, Utah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy H. View Post
Phillip, I respectfully disagree with some of the sentiments above. I've only been skimming a lot of the posts and then reading some carefully, however,

I don't think the OP has referred to himself as a "victim" once in the thread, however if his boat has been stolen, then it seems perfectly valid to me. It's others who have made this reference. Also, it's up to the OP to post his parts of the story on his own time. We don't have any right to have him spend the hours typing it up, proofing and revising, etc. on our schedule. I'm just glad to see it coming and don't care that Wayward is doing it in installments. That's his perogative and we should just count ourselves fortunate that he's taking the time to compose a great story for us.

And yes, there are themes relevant to boating in the West that are sensitive, primarily the way flows on the Dolores are completely jacked and riparian trespass from what I've seen. I'm not sure how describing them is a problem - it's just the backdrop. And is for sharing the story with humility, with the boating resume he has, to put it out there that he flipped his boat on that rock seems pretty humble to me. I could've missed something but until called out by Groover69 on his experience, I haven't seen any chest puffing so far in what he's written, quite frankly I've seen the latter.

I'm looking forward to the next installment. Whenever WaywardBoater wants to share it.

Also, if you change the number of posts shown per page, it's only 5 pages

-AH
We were eventually bound to respectfully disagree on something.

To be clear, my post was in response to Wickum's criticism and links. I think they were inaccurate terms and conclusions. I never claimed a right to any information or timeline. The OP can proceed how ever he wants. But the fashion, pace and narrative design is problematic in my opinion for a non-fiction account. And once the OP chose to publicly comment then his audience has the same privilege to comment.

For example, 4+ weeks ago Wayward stated (bold and italics mine) the following:

Quote:
Many pieces of the puzzle are in, but not yet enough for me to draw a conclusion.

There is quite a story here, and I will tell it. But not until all is in.

There is strong evidence of foul play on the part of one particular party. But I will not level that claim until I have learned all I possibly can.
I am uncomfortable with claiming to take the high road regarding accusations yet stating an opinion of foul play on a public forum when all the evidence is admittedly lacking. This is made worse by the structure of installments and the way several of them have ended in innuendo. A natural outcome of this style of writing is for the audience to fill in the blanks with guesses; that is fine with novels or fiction but problematic when dealing with real issues of private property and public access in the west. Relationships are plenty tense there already and i dont think this style helps in the long run.

Per the humility, i would have agreed until the OP fashioned the last few installments as he chose. Thats where my comment is situated. If the OP has more information then is being revealed but is withholding it for affect of storytelling than my manipulation summary stands. If the OP lacks the information needed to level such unfortunate claims but is choosing to fill in with innuendo than my red flags and criticisms are well-founded as well.

For now I stand by my skepticism. I think that is plenty fair and healthy when an OP strings people along for three plus months with vagueness and currently unsupported accusations.

And to be clear, leveling these criticisms about his post exist right alongside a sincere sympathy for enduring a rough river experience and an almost complete loss of gear. I have intentionally stayed clear of judgement regarding his choices on the river because they are secondary to that unfortunate experience (and the OP did not express an interest in that type of assesment but initially focused on the loss of gear ). The river is obviously an important part of the OP's life and I wouldn't wish this outcome on anybody.
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Old 10-17-2016   #167
 
Salt Lake City, Utah
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Dear restrac2000:

Thank you for your last post (and your excellent contributions to this thread all along). Your position is carefully fashioned and well thought-out, and eloquently expressed. And also, I must admit, well founded. More than anything, the form this telling has taken is mostly a result of my beginning the account without a clear sense of its resolution.

You are right. There is insufficient evidence to level any claim of wrong doing against anyone (other than myself). Whereas I had some hope that such evidence might emerge ---that hope has since slipped away. There are no accusations pending. ---Nothing’s being withheld. The basis for my suspicions regarding the boat’s demise is already within the narrative. As such, it was imprudent of me to submit the lines in my earlier post that you have highlighted in yours.

For anyone hanging on the edge of their seat, this story does not conclude with a bang, but with a whimper. What’s left to tell is mostly a testament to people stepping up in an effort to facilitate a positive outcome.

You (and some other key contributors here) have brought poise and discretion to an exchange that could easily have careened into rancor and chaos.

With much respect,

Wayward Boatman
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Old 10-17-2016   #168
 
Redmond, Oregon
Paddling Since: 1973
Join Date: Jan 2013
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From the Jehovah's Witness New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (2013 Revision):

Quote:
"Matthew 14:
28 ) Peter answered him: “Lord, if it is you, command me to come to you over the waters.”
29 ) He said: “Come!” So Peter got out of the boat and walked over the waters and went toward Jesus.
30 ) But looking at the windstorm, he became afraid. And when he started to sink, he cried out: “Lord, save me!”
31 ) Immediately stretching out his hand, Jesus caught hold of him and said to him: “You with little faith, why did you give way to doubt?”
32 ) After they got up into the boat, the windstorm abated."
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Old 10-17-2016   #169
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Lol, thanks, that was great!
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Old 10-17-2016   #170
 
Denver, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duct tape View Post
Pretty impressive river resume WB.

- Jon
I agree!! That is one hell of a river resume!!! Enjoyed the story as well!
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