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Old 03-30-2006   #1
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 38
Wavesport Diesel vs. LL Hoss

Looking to purchase a new river runner. I am cosidering both the Diesel and Hoss. I am 6 ft around 190#. My concern with Wavesport is around the plastic. It seems like I have read about alot of Diesels that are oil canning. Has anyone experienced this? The Hoss seems to get more mixed reviews than the Diesel but the plastic seems to hold up better.

I am looking for something that can float overnighters with gear, run big as well as technical class 4 with good stability, surf a little, punches through holes easily, resurfaces quickly, and can run some small creeks and falls. Maybe I am asking too much of one boat but thats what I would like to buy. Oh yeah, Id also like to be comfortable.

Any info would be appreciated including other boats I should look at as well.

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Old 03-30-2006   #2
boof512's Avatar
Teacher, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 307
You should buy by salto. It has pleanty of room for overnighters, strong plastic, very easy to paddle.. Awsome boat. you can check out pics at
sorry I dont have time to write more.
Feel free to call me at 970-218-4228

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Old 03-30-2006   #3
pnw, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,404
I like my Diesel but I havent paddled it enough to answer the plastic question.
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Old 03-30-2006   #4
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 122
What about a Dagger Mamaba 8.0. The Mamba has been a good boat for me. It can do all the things you were talking about, and I haven't had any problems with the plastic.
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Old 03-30-2006   #5
loveland, Colorado
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 317

I've been extremely happy with my Hoss as it does everything you desire in your post. It is a bomber river runner and can surf well. It took me thru Gore no problem as it resurfaces WELL. It will creek as well though it does have harder chines than a dedicated creeker. Overall for one boat this machine will keep you satisfied. Oh, this is one of the few in which my leg doesn't go numb either-very comfy with room in back to pack!
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Old 03-30-2006   #6
bouldrmatty's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 137
Subjective view....

I just got back from Chile (Futaleufu), and had a chance to paddle both boats.. I started out with the Diesel 65. I had never been in this boat or the Hoss. The initial stability of the Diesel was killing me. This could have been due to the fact that I hadn’t been in a boat in a while, and the river was a lot bigger than any other river I had ever been on.

I switched after two days to the Hoss, and was immediately impressed with it. More stable, only slightly slower, and a better play boat. The outfitting of the Hoss was superior to the Diesel, and I believe this made a bit of a difference as well.

All in all, I think I would grow to like the Diesel, but the Hoss was instantly a better fit and ride for me (6'1" 177lbs)
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Old 04-01-2006   #7
shaunotter's Avatar
Eureka, California
Paddling Since: 1992
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 57
As a Diesel owner who learned in it and now thrashes it some, I find it hasn't oil canned much at all, but it does seem to gouge fairly easily -- but it's a very fun, versatile, comfy boat. I tried a Mamba in the pool -- might've gotten the 8.0 or 8.5 if I had had that choice instead of a closeout Diesel. Outfitting felt stiffer, more responsive and there was more foot and gear room -- seemed to turn more easily and more smoothly, too. I may switch to one, especially since my Diesel 65 is a bit undersized for me with decent amount of gear (175+15?).
A great local paddling school (Otter Bar Lodge) instructor said their used Lil Joe (smaller Hoss) I was considering "rolled funny"(harder?) and was slow for its length. They prefer the Pyranha H3 in this boat category, which also has more foot room and better outfitting than the Diesels. Their new Burn sounds like a redesigned H3.
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Old 04-01-2006   #8
pnw, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,404
They prefer the H3 due to Jason for the most part. He is one of there lead instructors and has said the H3 is the perfect boat. I would not even think of buying a new river runner without paddling the Burn first.

You thought the Mamba was more responsive than the Diesel? I cant imagine how that would be possible.
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Old 04-01-2006   #9
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Eureka, California
Paddling Since: 1992
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 57
Well, my Mamba tryout, like I said, was in the pool and it was with the undersized-for-me 7.5 version so that should definitely qualify how I felt it carved more easily around the corners and other boats and the tranistion from flat hulled to leaning steeply felt better, smoother -- I really need to try an appropriate-sized one on a real river run.
Personally, I'm more interested in the new Pyranha STRETCH and it could probably do almost as much as the Burn/Diesel/Mamba, etc., except in the big or steep stuff, and I wonder how much more playful it would be as a one-boat option.
Me demoing any of these may mean a 6-hour drive from Eureka, CA to near Sacramento and then a drive upt to the SF American. Summer/spring road trip some day ...
Now that I have some experience and a roll, I should try the my friend's H3 235 again, just for comparison, especially since her outfitting setup fits me SO well (though at 5'11", I'd probably get a 245 or medium Burn).
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Old 04-01-2006   #10
pnw, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,404
I would be surprised if Otter bar doesnt have all sizes of the burn this year. Talk to the Sturges and I am sure they will loan/rent you one for a day. If I lived were you did I would definitely be interested in a boat that handles lots o water. You have it, we dont.

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