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Old 12-23-2010   #1
Provo, Utah
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 114
Villain S vs M Burn: Multi day trips?

There are a lot of boat X vs boat Y threads so I apologize in advance. I don't have either boat at my fingertips or near me to demo.

1) I am 6' 2" 150 lb so my seat tends to be further back in most of my boats. Is there enough space to pack for a 6ish day self support trip in either of these boats?

From the pictures it looks like the Villain S has more stern room than the M Burn and the specs list about 5 gallons more volume than the Burn. Confirmation would be nice.

2)The type of boating available to me is generally shallow and very bony with tight moves. Which of these two boats would be the best fit for this type of river?

3) Which is the most comfortable in your opinion and why?

Thanks for your responses

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Old 12-23-2010   #2
Hood River, Oregon
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 44
I have paddled both boats, and now own a Burn. I haven't however done any overnighters in either of them yet.
The S Villain was comfortable, and was very good at staying on the surface, as well as being easy to boof. It got a little pushed around however in bigger water/reactionary waves. I am the same weight as you.
The new Burn design impressed me a lot. I had paddled the old style and never really cared for it. This boat will handle like its on rails, and do exactly what you want it to do with little hip movement, its really quite sporty! Where as the Villain had tendencies to drift a bit more.
Another thing I liked about the Burn is that it punches through breaking waves and holes without getting deflected much, which really lets the paddler be in control.
The Villain felt like you could put it on auto pilot and it did a lot of the work for you, it would be very stable, but somewhat get pinballed in higher volume runs, but I like to have a sportier, more active feel to my boats.
For your low volume overnighter, the Burn and the Villain will have plenty of room- the burn is going to be lighter, as the jackson creek boats have aluminum bulk head plates and tend to weigh about 5 lbs heavier already, without being loaded down. Both boats are fairly fast. So it really depends on your paddling style- if you want something that that is a little easier to boof, and stays on top of the water a little better, go with the jackson- if you like a sportier, more agile boat that pierces through the water better, I would say go for the Burn.

Just my thoughts, hope it helps a little.

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Old 12-23-2010   #3
JDHOG72's Avatar
Wolcott, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2006
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 432
I paddled both and also went with the Burn M for just about the same reasons as Kayak2 said. I also paddled the Large Villian and actually liked how it handled more then the Villian S (although it seemed huge it paddled really well). I will probably buy a regular Villian for overnight trips/big water. That said I love my Burn. I am 6ft 170.
On another note it is hard to beat the Jackson warranty. Those guys have customer service dialed. JD
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Old 12-23-2010   #4
Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 09
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 69
I've paddled both a Villain S and the Burn M. I'm 5-11 170lbs. I really like both boats. I'd say they both paddle like they have the same volume. The Villain has more secondary stability, while the burn has more initial. The burn is quick and the Villain is fast. The Burn is more sporty and boofs equally, if not better than the Villain IMO. The Burn sits you much lower than the Villain, which I like. I still haven't gotten used to being up so high in the Villain. That being said, the rest of Jackon's outfitting is awesome. The easily adjustable, shock absorbing bulkhead on Jackson's is kick ass! The Villain has amazing secondary stability and much less edge, which might serve you better on your boney technical runs. I haven't tripped in either boat, but the Burn's stern was much more accessible. The Villain has a very large stern but has a very small opening. IMO, the Burn is more fun and agile, Villain is more of a creeker workhorse.
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Old 12-24-2010   #5
Provo, Utah
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 114
Thanks for the input
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