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Old 07-25-2005   #1
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Take this test...

Best boat for a new boater running class III?

These are the boats you can choose from (read, light weight paddler):

Dagger Juice 6.9
Dagger Mamba 7.5
Jackson 2 Fun
Jackson Hero
Liquid Logic Trigger
Liquid Logic Lil' Joe
Inazone 221
Wavesport Booflick 55
Wavesport Diesel 65

Which one and WHY or WHY not (key question)? Think back to when you first started paddling... is it easy to roll, can you play (did you care), do you feel stable in bigger water... these are the kinds of questions that count here.

Yes this is a test. You will be graded. Extra credit: pick a boat that isn't listed here and would make sense.

Automatic A++... offer to loan one of these out (rental fee paid in beer) for the remainder of the summer.[/b]
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Old 07-25-2005   #2
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2002
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 586
The Dagger Juice is a terrible boat (and this comes from a guy who owns and loves two Daggers).

The Juice is way too heavy for what it is. It is clunky. Though it's shorter than my Dagger Id 6.9, it doesn't play nearly as well. It's clunky and heavy for cartwheels -- the Id throws ends much better.

The Juice is neither a very good play boat nor a great river runner.

My Kingpin 6.1 is just as stable as the Juice even though it's way shorter and plays much better. It's also drastically lighter.
My Id 6.9 is faster than the Juice, and plays much better, but it is very very edgy and not the most forgiving boat for a beginner.

They're all easy boats to roll.

I like Daggers a lot, but the Juice is not the way to go.

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Old 07-25-2005   #3
pnw, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,404
You dont mention whether you are aggressive or not. If not then take the diesel. If you are then I would say take the Kingpin or a crazy 88, leaks like a sieve if you play hard but good boats. Jackson seems like a good allround boat if you like the outfitting, I didnt. I would also add the ezg to the list, great allround boat.
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Old 07-25-2005   #4
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Id725... pluses for good explanations. B

gh... pluses for good question on aggression, yes aggressive, but by who's definition? My idea of aggressive and yours might be different, as I would vote no on the crazy 88. Minus for trying to kill me. Minus for the EZG... too slicey (tried it). C+
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Old 07-25-2005   #5
KSC's Avatar
Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2003
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,032
What's a Booflick?

I say thumbs down to Mamba, Hero, Lil' Joe, Diesel, or anything in the river/creeker class of boats since you're aggressive. They won't be any good for play, and as you progress you'll quickly wish you had something more fun for runs you're comfortable with. If you're learning your skills properly and moving up at an appropriate rate, I say you don't need those boats for class III/IV- runs. When you want to step up to bigger water you can add a creek boat to your collection.

I think Inazones are an older design, so unless $$ is a big factor go more modern, but I haven't paddled one. Haven't paddled a Juice either, but a thread a while back elicited mixed reviews.

On your list I would go for the 2Fun. The hip pads rubbed me the wrong way and I'm not so sure about the happy bag, but those can be fixed. Otherwise it seemed stable and predictable for river running, good for some basic play, and can even loop. As a bonus it doesn't leak water, is comfortable (overall), and really light.

You've probably already considered it, but I would add the EZ to your list. Great river runner, not as slicey as the EZG, can be found used, and capable of all the basic play moves.

(Come on "A"!)
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Old 07-25-2005   #6
Web Developer/Programmer
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 105
I just paddled a fun and really liked it. I didn't bother getting the outfitting setup for me and I could still roll it easy. Offside roll was much easier more consistant than in my g-ride. Did not seem very slicey at all, which is why I think I'm going for the ezg. I really like outfitting on jackson and wavesport if that matters to you. The fun will make you cooler than the other boats. So if you think you are moderately aggresive, want to do some downriver play, and find the ezg too slicey I'd say go with the 2 fun.

I'm going to have to give you an f on your follow up to gh for not clarifying your idea of aggressive, and for giving the ezg a c+.
Damn I Look Good.
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Old 07-25-2005   #7
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I-dot, you get an F- for grading me, I give out the grades in this post, for having poor reading skills (I was never asked to explain my idea of agressive) and for ape level direction following skills. It specifically states, take this test, provide answers, you will be graded, etc. It never said give a grade to the grader. The only reason you weren't sent to the tard room is because you like the Fun and gave specifics on fitting. Get a stick and poke it in your eye for the comment about the EZG... that was redundant.

KSC - Very informative, helpful and well thought through; the part about progressing at the correct pace was good. You piqued my interst and I even feel compelled to ask you a question (question to follow). You also took control of your own destiny... solid A.

Question for KSC - I hear what you're saying about not wanting to out grow the bigger boats, but what about the confidence boosting feature that comes from feeling solid? I liked the 2Fun, but many a good, class V boater has told me that it's stupid to start out with a playesque boat and to get a season in, in a more stable boat. What say you to that for extra credit?
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Old 07-25-2005   #8
Gary E's Avatar
Jackson, Wyoming
Paddling Since: 94
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 739
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get a stubby already,jeeeesus..It's the greatest river/play boat ever made..Works great for ladies that don't tube and is stable-which it sounds like you need to keep your sorry ass from swimming all over colorado..Give your friends a brake and get a boat that will help you stay upright..Yet has a great learning curve and can paddle any river/creek we have in CO.


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Old 07-25-2005   #9
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Gary... D+, for mentioning a boat referenced on as a way to transport water aerobics tapes from one end of the pool to the other, as well as for self grading and talking about things of which you have no knowledge (my swimming). You did receive bonus points for suggesting a possibly suitable boat, which raised you from an F to a D+.

For redemption - Where might I find one (and I don't want to pay extra for an antique)?
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Old 07-25-2005   #10
Gary E's Avatar
Jackson, Wyoming
Paddling Since: 94
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 739
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For someone with wise in their screen name you're pretty f%^&n clueless..Must be the air in those mtns up there-or maybe the water hasn't drained out of your soggy head yet.Either way look around theres more out there than a screen to type on..Maybe you should buy a coast gaurd life vest and forget the boat...Gotta be tough to be your life gaurd,yard sale all day everyday..


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