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Old 07-31-2005   #61
Carbondale, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2002
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 43
pyranha I3, surfs great, pretty slicey, lots of volume!!!

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Old 08-09-2005   #62
shaunotter's Avatar
Eureka, California
Paddling Since: 1992
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 57
I'm a 3-months-in newbie and LOVE my stable, comfy, predictable Diesel 65 (I'm 5'11"", 165) -- one thing that should be mentioned more often is that it is fast and tracks quite well compared to most others, but is still plenty maneuverable. It surfs easily and forgivingly, and you won't be doing cartwheels, etc. soon so don't worry about the volume hurting in that area.
What I like best about it is how the super secondary stability gives my newbie butt more time to react and brace before it really goes over.
Second best thing: It was great during high flows on our main local Class III run (see: ... photos show high flow). The volume and stability made crashing over and through the big waves and holes an absolute blast of a ride! It does well in those condition but then is still fun to carve and play some on mellower stuff.
As far as catching eddies, I find that it just takes very aggressive leaning/edging and I can grab them well.

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Old 08-09-2005   #63
shaunotter's Avatar
Eureka, California
Paddling Since: 1992
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 57
Other tips I got from paddling instructors and other users when I was trying to pick my first ww boat:

Li'l Joe, etc. is stable but fairly slow, rolls "weird"

Dagger GT series was favored by some as the best learning/school boat until the Diesels came out
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Old 08-13-2005   #64
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4
the jackson 2 fun is the best boat out there for playboating and also river running. that is wheree i would start out
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Old 08-13-2005   #65
Boulder, Colorado
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 122
Dagger GT

Hi Wisegirl,
I haven't seen the Dagger GT mentioned yet... I paddle the 7.8 (middle size) and I love it!!! I'm a class 3 boater and I just got my combat roll this year- I am 5'7" 120lbs. I could easily fit into the 7.5 (smaller size) but I wanted to be as comfortable as possible.

I love my GT because it's stable, easy to roll, good for river running, has a planing hull so I can surf if I want (but no other play moves). It is also one of the most comfortable boats I have ever tried. I can sit in it all day without having any issues with my feet falling asleep. (woo hoo!)

I think it's great for all levels- especially beginner and intermediate boaters. I don't think I'll ever outgrow it though, which is the best part!

Hope that helps!

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Old 08-15-2005   #66
Lakewood, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1985
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 35
Hi Wisegirl,

Contrary to what has been written so far, I enjoyed the Juice. I tried it yesterday for the first time and loved it. It was very forgiving, tracked well and gave me the confidence to play (read this as not being an eddy flower.) I tried the EZG earlier this year and it was a bit more lively. I know that play boaters will say that is a good thing, but as a II+/III boater, I like staying upright.

I did not experience any more leakage in this boat than any other I've tried. I would recommend replacing the bulkhead with foam. My toes slipped over the top but this is more of an annoyance than a problem. Keep the bulkhead in and you have a place to stow a first aid kit.

Renaissance Adventure Guides have been instructing in these all summer and had great results. They are going to sell them off at the end of the month. If nothing else I'd say Demo the juice before you decide.

No need to grade me, I got enough of that in school.

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Old 08-15-2005   #67
GAtoCSU's Avatar
Eagle, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1994
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 696
Lil'joe for sure. Nothing like a good river runner with a flat hull. Plus, you wouldn't have to sell this.. Buy a full on playboat later and use this boat to creek until you get into class 5. Then sell both boats and buy a real creeker like a Jefe. No need for a playboat.


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