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Old 08-22-2006   #1
shaunotter's Avatar
Eureka, California
Paddling Since: 1992
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 57
Pyranha 7-0 vs. Kingpin ... Forgiving river runner?

I'm 5'11"/175+ and really enjoying my nimble, stable, fairly comfy old Kingpin 6.3 that I switched into after my beginner year in my now-gone Diesel 65. I'm considering a used Pyranha 7-0 M/L for hopefully more speed and hole-punching ability -- I mainly paddle Class III or a touch beyond that, and don't care too much about play potential.

The Kingpin is a very stable, forgiving river runner -- Is the 7-O even more so? Similar? Or is it more edgey? Does that slicey stern get grabbed easily in somehwat pushier water? Any other thoughts?

If I can find a great deal I might also be interested in the CR125 -- Anybody you tried that and one of the others?

I just would rather have something that is faster and better at punching holes for when the rivers rise and get faster this winter. I'm hoping the extra length of the 7-0 will make it hopefully more stable in juicier conditions or for more squirelly holes or eddy lines. I hope it is at least close to the easy and forgiving handling and stability of the Kingpin.


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Old 08-25-2006   #2
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 53
Look at a Pyrahna I-3. Very stabil forgiving all around boat. I really don't know why they quit making this one. But it should be no problem to find a used one.

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Old 08-25-2006   #3
Fort Collins, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2003
Join Date: Sep 2004
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just picked up a Pyranha Stretch M/L. Seven - O with a little more length for river running. Sounds like the perfect boat for you.
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Old 08-25-2006   #4
shaunotter's Avatar
Eureka, California
Paddling Since: 1992
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 57
I tried an I3 222 (med) once on Class III -- too much initial stability, somewhat hard to edge and didn't maneuver nimbly, fairly boring, but I did like the stability and it had better speed than the Kingpin, of course.
A friend just bought a Stretch m/l, so I should finally be able to demo one -- might be a very nice one-boat option for me.
A 7-0 for $450 is still very tempting, though ...
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Old 08-25-2006   #5
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Summit, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1996
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I haven't paddled them a lot, but I thought that both the 7-O and Stretch were very good intermediate river-runners. It sounds like they both would be very good boats for you (assuming the fit is good). They both paddled very similar for me; I could hardly tell the difference. I guess I thought the Stretch maneuvered a little better and was a hair more forgiving. They are both definately faster and more stable than the Kingpin and you can still throw ends in them. I would also suggest checking out the Dagger Rx and the Pyranha Inazones. I haven't paddled the I:3 or the CR.

"The world would be a better place if everyone kayaked."-Brad Ludden (Valhalla)
"You only get one chance to run a drop blind."-DD
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Old 09-11-2006   #6
shaunotter's Avatar
Eureka, California
Paddling Since: 1992
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 57
OK, so I bought the 7-0 M-L ($450 made it lower risk) ... I suppose I'll answer my own question to an extent now, in case anybody else is thinking about the Pyranha 7-0.
(Note: This is just after one 4-mile Class III run)

I think it is a curently too loose for my novice skills. It's a "M-L", but I consider it more of a Medium since it's actually substantially less volume than my old Kingpin 6.3 (51 vs. 56 gallons, supposedly, but it the 7-0 feels/ paddles smaller than that over all and is sleeker/ lower profile). The big KP seems like a slow but maneuverable and stable/ forgiving barge compared to gliding along in the sleek, fast, and more sensitive 7-0, though the 7-0 was also maeuverable when paddled without leaning forward as much as in the KP. It also has significantly less rocker than it looks like in picture comparisons with the Kingpin, I wish it had a little more, but I'll just trim the seat back over the fairly stable and nicely carvy stern.
I was starting to get a feel for it on my first run recently on Class III, but I'm just not used to something that's that much faster and more responsive edge-to-edge playful -- I guess I'm better with my KP, which kinda plows over things, gets slowed by holes more, and gives me more time to react, even if it responds a bit clumsily. I was getting used to it somewhat by the end of the run, though, and at least it rolls back up more quickly -- had one of my best/fastest combat rolls ever at a key spot. I don't play much at this point, either, so maybe I'm looking for more of a river runner type -- Stretch or Rx or Pintail?
I have to say, the speed of the 7-0 was really impressive -- it felt closer to the Diesel 65 I used to have than the snub-nosed Kingpin. I'm going to try it in the ocean surf soon, probably I'll like it more there.
If I don't, adios fishy ...
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Old 09-12-2006   #7
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 35
Sounds Like you need a Mamba.

Ever looked at the Mamba?? If you are looking for a fast and stable river runner that is forgiving at the same time you should seriously check out a Mamba. It has rails for carving in and out of eddies and a super loose hull for flat spinning. This advanced hull combined with the safest and strongest outfitting on the market gives you a boat with no compromise. The Mamba can be anything from a beginning boat to a class five creeker. It really is that versitile! It comes in three sizes and you would fit in the larger two of the three. The medium if you want less volume and the bigest if you want more. For living around northern Cali it would be an awesome learing boat. There is even room for a bunch of overnight gear if you go out for more than just the day. To me it sounds like you need more volume instead of less. But if you still want less and are tired of that Pyrana try the RX. It rules the freestlye river runner category and I havn't even imagined what it could do in the surf.
Good luck,
Alex Hotze
Team D
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Old 09-12-2006   #8
shaunotter's Avatar
Eureka, California
Paddling Since: 1992
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 57
I've tried the under-sized Mamba 7.5 briefly in a pool, and liked how it turned there, but need to demo an 8.0 on some whitewater someday. I'm so confident in my maneuverable and stable Kingpin 6.3, though, that I'm afraid the Mamba will feel a lot like the Diesel 65 I learned in for most of last year -- comfy and fast, nice for boofing, but less maneuverable and less responsive than my KP and more likely to get manuevered/ pushed around by current. I was finding the Diesel's high-volume ends were getting redirected by side currents, and between boulders frustratitingly often, where in the KP I'm in control much more. I want something for really high volume and truly creeky stuff, so I'll end up with a second boat like a Mamba, but almost everything I do now would be great in a playboat/ riverplay boat.
I also don't want to buy another Dagger until maybe the upcoming ones (and used/ demo at that) because my nice IR dry deck with Shockwave thin bungee cord skirt leaks bigtime on Daggers, though it's adequate for other boats I've had it on. I'm going to try putting an O-ring of surgical tubing on after the skirt as recommended by a local outfitter who paddles.
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Old 09-12-2006   #9
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 16
Sounds like you are in love with your Kingpin and shouldn't get rid of it. I don't know if you can but I would suggest holding onto your Kingpin if you ever want a smaller boat and get something larger like the Mamba. I love the small Mamba, but for your size would probably go up a size. It is a blast to paddle, managable on big water but you can still catch and surf a wave.
Good Luck-Eleanor

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