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Old 07-06-2005   #1
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4
Playboats: Dagger vs. Jackson vs. LL

i weigh 120 and about 5 ft 8 inches and had a dagger ultrafuge and lookng for a new playboat i was thinking about a kingpin or a crazy 88 but was looking for suggestions and maybe a jackson or a liquid logic
i mostly play but looking for something that i can still run class III and some IV

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Old 07-06-2005   #2
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 305

that is the answer it doesn't matter what anyone thinks about their boat.
Confluence Kayaks has a Demo program that the Demo price goes to the cost of a boat. And you get to try different boats in the same day.

Don't do anything, just stand there.
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Old 07-06-2005   #3
Arvada, 80003
Paddling Since: 2002
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 253
I paddle the crazy 88 and love it. The all star is a great boat as well. If i didn't get a crazy 88 i porbably would have bought an all-star. If i were you i would get the 6.2. Everyone will tell you a different story though. Just try them all out. Then you will know forsure.
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Old 07-06-2005   #4
Denver (Philly Native), Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 146
Ask around and ask all types of paddlers what they like and why and (what type of water they run it in), then compare to your laundry list of boat requirements. It's been my method and every boat I bought I have never demo'd and never been disappointed. Sometimes a deal is a deal, and you gotta jump. Or you can demo away... oh yeah, if you find an Prijon Alien, don't buy it.
"When the going gets weird, the Weird turn pro" -HST
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Old 07-07-2005   #5
Marine Biologist
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 90
my girlfriend is going to get a VERY cheap Prijon Alien. What is wrong with this boat? Why should she not get it? Is it due to its outdated style? Is it easy to roll? She has no experience. Is this such a bad boat for a beginner to learn in? Thanks for the beta,

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Old 07-08-2005   #6
Preacher of the Profit Paddling Since: 1990
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,062

The Prijon Alien is by most people's consideration the worst kayak design of all time. I'm sure you're getting it at a great price, and at the same time... you're getting ripped off.

There were several flaws in the design. It's very hard to roll for a boat of that size, the outfitting was awful, it has a super flathull and they didn't add release chine, it's mis-balanced, it has thin side walls, almost no rocker, and a flat upper deck.

Meaning: no very stable, doesn't hold a line, doesn't resurface, and doesn't help the paddler go over holes or give the paddler control.

Save your money and get something that will help her learn to kayak, give her both innicial and secondary stability, is comfortable, and gives her control. There are two reasons to buy a kayak (and price is not always the only reason) 1) it meets your needs for right now. (Control, comfort, and stability) and 2) it gives you room to grow in the future. The Alien misses on both those points.

Save your money or she'll never kayak again.
I love to dance, but who needs the music- It throws me off.
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Old 07-11-2005   #7
Marine Biologist
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 90
Thanks for the heads up. We will not be buying an Alien! Any one use a riot Glide Slice? How would that be for a beginner? Thanks again,
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Old 07-11-2005   #8
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Golden, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1984
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,879

If you're looking for cheap and relatively versatile, go with an older InaZone (sized to fit her), an EZ (more expensive because they hold value, but that merans you can probably sell it later for not much less than what you paid), or maybe a Perception Blaze.

I agree with Don- if you go with "cheap" and the dominating factor, you risk her hating the sport because her initial impressions are from a poor design. There are a couple of Redlines in the Swap right now that would be pretty good for the first season, but you'd probably have to sell them if she gets into boating after this season.

As for the Glide, my sense is that it wouldn't be too unstable if she's petite, but it is a low-volume boat with grabby rails, so you're risking it a little.
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Old 07-11-2005   #9
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 176
Sure demo its the norm. But really reasearch the boat and what other people have to say as well. Different boats perform differently of different faetures. Here is what I mean if you paddle in low volume rivers alot then you are primarily on steep features. You may demo a bunch of different boats and decide you like boat X the most. but then you go to a good feature somewhere and you realize you new overpriced piece of plastic sucks here and you cant even get on the wave let alone surf it. So my advice is demo but since you cant usually go to say lunchcounter to demo read reviews from folks who have tried these different boats elswhere. WHat you may realize is it is worth it to get somthing that will work in the hole but is maybe not the best at looping, but it can in turn enable you to get good rides when you go to bigger water as well. Boat design has gotten so specialized the companies wouild prefer you to have at least 4 boats now. so pick and choose wisley and listen to reviews like on boater talk these can really help you make an informed decision.
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Old 07-11-2005   #10
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 41
As far as the original question, Dagger, Jackson, or LL, I agree it's best to demo and decide for yourself. However, I pddle a Dagger Kingpin, and I'll tell you what I do and don't like about it. Dislikes: heavy, leaky, kinda slow, oilcanned easily. Likes: Super-comfy, easy to roll, won't pearl out as often as some (i.e. older designs like the SuperEgo, Ultrafuge, Pyranah sub7, Inazone, etc.) design is great for holes and waves yet with enough volume to run big rapids.
I've had my eye on the Jackson All Star for sometime now. I still have to demo it. But initially what impresses me about it is it's effencient design. It's very light, very strong (perhaps the strongest plastic out there) and stays very dry. For most part, I hav'ent heard anything bad about Jackson. And they are very competetivley priced.

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