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Old 09-02-2009   #11
caspermike's Avatar
Bozeman, Montana
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Mar 2007
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paul ever watch the kayaking tow sledding movies of people sliding hell fast on the ground same concept and possible. i ate the most shit in a planning hull switched to displacement and never looked back.

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Old 09-02-2009   #12
surrounded by mountains, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1981
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Originally Posted by Paul View Post
For those suggesting that edges can get caught on a rock and result in a flip, how often has that happened to you in a planing hull creeker? Is it speculation or experience?

I haven't had that experience, but am probably not running the same gnar as some of you. However, I am running low volume creeklike runs: Middle/Lower Narrows, Spencer Heights, Big Thompson. I've hit many a rock sideways...sometimes I manage to slide over it, sometimes I come to an abrubt stop, lean downstream and slide around it. The abrubt stop actually helps me lean the right way...keeping my upstream edge out of the water and me upright. It seems like a round hull in some situations could actually slide up the rock, then allow you to topple over the upstream direction, making an upstream flip more likely rather than less. Just speculating...
Paul, where square edge planning hull boats are most common to be less forgiving is on slide falls ... where you're skidding across a steep shelf just barely covered by water. Another place is on manky sharp lipped drops that might snag just enough to throw off your expections at the least. All in all, the scenerio is most commonly found in steep high alpine CREEKS. Which, are full of young angular rock and shelves. Very rounded hulls/edges are much more forgiving in these scenerios, as well as for forgivenly fading off even rounded rocks when the action is fast action manky hair-ball. As you may know, the class V+ world is a wonderous, but dangerous, place where you need advantages rather than disadvantages.


No risk, no reward. It is not that we have to, it is that we get to. Preparation and education are essential to self-confidence and success. - KV
"If there is no risk there is no adventure."- Bill Briggs
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Old 09-02-2009   #13
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1994
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 325
I've been paddling a burn since the boat came out (2005?), and before that I paddled an H3. I've also paddled a few displacement hulls - nomad, micro...and I would not say that the edges on the planning hulls are in any way shape or form a disadvantage. And I have NEVER "caught an edge" in a planning hull creeker on any type of creek from CO uber mank to polished cali granite, and I much prefer the performance of a planning hull with edges to a displacement hull. This is personal preference, I have a lot of buddies who swear by their jefe, nomad, etc. If you like the planning hull, get the planning hull - you will not be disadvantaged. At the end of the day, there's not too much difference between the major models of creek boats out there, and whatever you feel most comfortable in is what you should go with.
Chris Morrison
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Old 09-02-2009   #14
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x, x
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planning hulls with good volume and a displacement deck at the bow and stern like the super hero is an extreme example but the BEST boat for rivers and creeks. The plastic might not repair as easly, but man it's a good boat. I don't creek specificly but when it gets tight and jagged I am doing fine. though if I do go creekin' full time I might want to re-evaluate.

Plus, anyone who wouldn't run the V's in an EZ is inteligent and preserving,

wait, no.... pompus and faggy.
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Old 09-03-2009   #15
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BZN, Montana
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To the comments about runs listed as next years goals being not too creeky, more long term plans do include creekier runs. IE ran Baileys yesterday at admittedly low flows (185), but had a ton of fun. Would have like to clean it a little more. Also would like to have a boat that boofs a little better, and doesn't get screwed by so many rocks.

Baileys at higher flows, running the entrances to Four falls and Supermax would be goals for next year. As well.
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Old 09-03-2009   #16
Aspen, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1994
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 377
I have never tried a planing hull creeker. My last few have been a Gradient, Micro 250 and a Nomad 8.5. The Nomad was by far the best. I like the soft landing of a curved hull but I have not experienced a flat hull landing. Landing flat can hurt my old back enough but it might be nice to have a hull that would spin easier.
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Old 09-03-2009   #17
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Edge o' the Dust Bowl, Oklahoma
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"Tastes great!"

"Less filling!"

Good arguments for both sides - that will probably continue till the next major advance in boat design.
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Old 09-04-2009   #18
surrounded by mountains, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1981
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So, I thought about it a little more. True, just about every run has been run in any kind of boat ... displacemnt hull, planing, large volume, small, creeker, river runner, or play boat designs. However, I think that creek boating often involves a lot of banging. While, we have used planing hull designs succesfully in these conditions ... the typical risk is that the boater may lift the down-stream edge while trying to make a cut or in scraping over mank ... and that tends to expose the large FLAT surface to more easily stick, wrap, or puncture on sharp rocks or other obstacles. Thus, making it challenging to overpower the mistake and snap the upstream edge back up to prevent a flip or pin. Whereas, the displacement hull tends to provide more forgiveness in being able to correct the mistake because there can be less surface hung on the obstacle and less grabby edges to resist snapping the lean of the boat back with ones ability to overpower the force of the water. Generally, you will often notice that the planing hulls of Creek boaters will have a dent or crease in the hull. It only takes one shot. Less frequently will you find a displacement hull marked as such. Both will have major scrapes and gouges from sharp rocks, but fewer displacement hulls will be permanently creased on the bottom. Probably, a displacement hull is arguably a safer boat for creeking. I love my Habitat and Punk Rocker (both with unmared hulls) in mank. I love my Diesel 65 (yes, it is dented and creased under the seat. Which, is why I now own creek boats ... to have the right tool for the right job) for most all other Class IV/V enjoyment.
No risk, no reward. It is not that we have to, it is that we get to. Preparation and education are essential to self-confidence and success. - KV
"If there is no risk there is no adventure."- Bill Briggs
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Old 09-04-2009   #19
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Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 451
Fluid Solo

I just got a Fluid Solo this year. I like it so far. Monster strong boat. Over kill for what I do actually.

Here is and independent review.

Kayak & Canoe News


The Frogs like it
Fluid Solo elected Boat of the Year by French "Canoe Kayak Magazine" readers - Fluid Kayaks Team

some boatertalk dude
BoaterTalk: Review for Solo S

another independent
Adrian Tregoning - Lekker Kayaking - Fluid Solo (Large) Review
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Old 09-04-2009   #20
Park City, Utah
Paddling Since: 1985
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 700
What do you want to do?

For big river big water fun, the planning hull is pretty awesome on a huge slick wave while having the comfort of the volume around you. For banging through front range mank, the displacement hull will keep you out of trouble more. Pick up a used Blunt and then get the displacement hull boat. That way you'll get the best of both worlds. Of course this is the attitude that keeps my wife mad at me about how full our shed is!!

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