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Old 05-18-2016   #1
St Louis Park, Minnesota
Paddling Since: 2013
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 2
Noob needs buying used advice

Need some experienced advice.

I'm getting into paddling more seriously. I've rented several times and want to buy my own now. My wife also wants to come with on more adventurous treks.

So I need two Kayaks, I buy all my gear used for all other sports so I am hoping to find a good deal used locally (MN).

I am thinking about 75% flat lakes, some easy moving water when we are together. But I want to do some class II and III alone, there a tons of rivers and streams around the great lakes. So for me 50% flat 50% WW. She might also get into WW eventually.

Now that you know my use case, here are details on a post I am seriously considering.

Pyranha Fusion w/Connect 30 whitewater rigging
Wavesport Ethos 9
Accent Pro Core Nomad 200cm
Accent Rage Carbon 197cm
2x Spray skirts
2x Yakima hullraiser kayak carrier

$2000 O.B.O.

From what I've read these boats are great, both new in 2013 one owner, him and wife, selling because no time with newborn. Online reviews rave, kinda feel like hit the jackpot finding this. Two great boats. Whats a good offer for these, I've seen Ethos 9 for $600 lightly used online w/ full kit.

Thoughts appreciated!
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Old 05-18-2016   #2
dirtbagkayaker's Avatar
Bazzaro, World
Paddling Since: 2020
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,323
I think your research is spot on for a good WW boats and something that will function in the lake.

But from my pov, we love continuous rocker in WW and hate it on the lake. The fusion-ethos are like 80% WW and 20% lake. If you ever get on flat water in a true lake kayak you will hate on the ethos and fusion for the lakes. They require way more effort to stay going straight and to keep forward momentum.

Next we need to talk about paddles. WW paddles are much shorter. WW paddles suck on the lake and Lake paddles suck on WW. If you want to make the ethos-fusion thing work you will also need a long WW paddle or short Lake paddle. Much longer than the 200 cm for lake. 200 cm is WW sizing. 230 cm is lake.

Your needs call for compromises that don't make much sense for pure WW or Lake but doable.

good Luck.

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Old 05-18-2016   #3
St Louis Park, Minnesota
Paddling Since: 2013
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 2
So what would be a fair price for a used 5 year old kayak? I'm not sure how the market works exactly.

It is described as gently used several times. Is it under cutting to say $600 for each plus trimmings. $1200?
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Old 05-18-2016   #4
FatmanZ's Avatar
NOCO, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1990
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 582
A good reference tool is the gearswap section of

There is a fair number of ww kayak and gear listed on that site, including some cross-over and rec kayaks. By researching that site you should get a good idea of market prices on used kayaks and gear.
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Old 05-18-2016   #5
cataraftgirl's Avatar
Sandy, Utah
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,120
I'm not a WW kayaker, just a flat water paddler/whitewater rafter. A friend rented a crossover kayak last summer to try out on a lake trip. Katana I think it was? She was looking for a "do it all" kayak. In the end, she decided that the crossover didn't do either thing really well. Ok for both directions, but not good enough to be the boat of her dreams. Lots of paddlers and rafters look for that magical boat that will do all things, but we soon find that it doesn't exist. You might come close with some compromises, but in the long run we all end up with a garage full of boats.....The right tool for the job.
"We are all visitors to this time, this place. We are just passing through. Our purpose here is to observe, to learn, to grow, to love....and then we return home."
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Old 05-18-2016   #6
dirtbagkayaker's Avatar
Bazzaro, World
Paddling Since: 2020
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,323
Well, I get that the seller may have paid near 3K for their gear. But the reality is that there are 15 or 20 other kayak models that will be good on the river and lake. Plastic boats are tough and can last for years and years. As mentioned above. I don't think you'll be happy long term on the lake in the ethos or fusion. So, knowing that any WW boat will be compromised on the lake, I'd look for a cheaper/older model if price is key. I feel 2K is a fare price for those boats and the buyer will eventually get that price.
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Old 05-18-2016   #7
Duluth, Minnesota
Paddling Since: 2007
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 175
MN is full of peope asking too much for their stuff. can find some deals on the fb page or rapids riders. I'd pick up a package when it comes up on rapids riders and go from there. Lots of old designs pop up that are more reasonable.

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Old 05-18-2016   #8
Duluth, Minnesota
Paddling Since: 2007
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 175
To clarify, I think you could get setup for $500 and take the money you save and buy another boat for the lake. Honestly a cheapy from Dick's is going to perform the same/better than a crossover for flat water. Or buy a canoe.

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Old 05-18-2016   #9
Fort Collins
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 129
I second the notion that boats multiply in the garage. I started with one free play boat a few years back, and some how it has spawned 6 other kayaks (couple river runners and a few duckies). So if you get into it, you will probably find them reproducing in the garage.

As for the WW vs lake issue, I have found that I can have an enjoyable time paddling my river runners around large ponds and small lakes for 2-3 hour trips. When we 1st got into kayaking, I thought the LL Remix XP would be the ideal boat for many of the same reasons you have. In retrospect, I am much happier that we have the river runners instead. Rivers are just more fun. It won't surprise me if I look in the garage one day, and find 2 touring boats were conceived, but having that addition would be better as a quiver than the one boat that doesn't do anything well.

Just my $0.02
"If I'm not there, it means I'm dead...or late!" General W.R. Monger
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Old 05-19-2016   #10
Sumas, Chilliwack, BC
Paddling Since: 2012
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 120
Noob needs buying used advice

Buy lake boats for the lake and then a river runner for yourself. The crossovers only truly excel at multi day class 2-3 river trips and short lake paddles under 2 hours. I have a Rogue 10 and it is better than the Fusion and Ethos for flat water but I would prefer a 10 or 12' lake boat design, they will be faster. That said I would never sell my Rogue.....and yes boats multiply as your skills improve. You could easily end up with 4 or 5 boats each. Playboat, river runner, creek boat, lake boat and sea kayak. That's what happened for us but with a heavy slalom component. There is easily 10-12 boats kicking around for slice of everything.....

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