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Old 02-06-2014   #21
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 429
Do a search on boatertalk for the green boat vs stinger you'll find opinions from people who have actually paddled them.

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Old 02-07-2014   #22
Tim Kennedy
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Avon, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1988
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 107
Originally Posted by FastFXR View Post
I'm going from a regular perspective. Most of you seem to be coming from a LL fanboy perspective where everything LL shits out is golden. The reason I ask such questions is that I just bought my second XP9...and now everyone is saying "Stinger!", which I was having difficulty understanding. But reading through all of this, I understand--if it says LL on it, it's the 'shazam' or some shit like that. Regardless, lack of deck rigging makes it a fail.
Sorry. I know you said in a previous post that you are "not wanting to argue"…But I am taking the bait. Perhaps the lack of deck rigging makes it a poor choice for meeting your needs and purpose. But that doesn't warrant labeling it a "fail". What are your needs? Where do you intend on paddling? What is your paddling ability?

If on flat water, I suggest something like this: Dagger Kayaks - Performance Touring - Alchemy 14.0S
It is much faster than any whitewater design in flat water and has deck rigging.

If on easy (class II-III) whitewater, then your Remix XP9 is perfect, or you could try one of these:
Dagger Kayaks - Crossover - Crossover Whitewater - Katana 9.7
or this:Pyranha Mouldings - Kayaks - Fusion

Or if you can find one, try a Pyranha Speeder. Pyranha Mouldings - Kayaks - Speeder
I hear that they have minimal secondary stability, and are more susceptible to "pilot error".

Sea/touring kayaks and boats like the Speeder will be much faster in flat water (lakes, ocean, flat moving rivers). Due to the design characteristics that promote speed, they will require a considerable amount of skill to maneuver in whitewater more difficult than class II. But I know several paddlers that have run self support Grand trips in them.

The crossover boats have all the rigging and storage accessibility of sea/touring boats. They offer better stability and control in easy whitewater than a sea/touring boat. But, they lack the speed. I know of a few people who have paddled crossover boats on more difficult whitewater self support rivers (Upper Rio Grande including Upper Taos Box). But, they tend not to hold up to the abuse that can occur in steeper, rockier runs. The foot pegs blow out. The hatches leak. The deck rigging can present a possible entanglement/entrapment risk.

I wouldn't call it a case of LL fanboy-ism. I currently paddle Liquidlogic boats because I like the designs. I like the designs because at this time, they suit my needs and paddling style. I have owned and paddled many other brands in the past (Perception, Dagger, Pyranha, Wave Sport, New Wave, etc…). Until we see what Jackson has planned for the Karma Unlimited, the only boat that currently offers a skeg and hatch with a faster hull design and ease of paddling on class IV+ is the Stinger XP. If I do a self support on a run such as the Grand Canyon, Middle Fork of the Salmon, Cataract, etc., I would love to have a Stinger XP to paddle. I wouldn't want a Remix XP or other crossover design, because I prefer a faster craft with some maneuverability.

And again, I ask, "What do you intend to rig on the bow deck?" I'm curious. Habachi? Lunch cooler? Camp chair?

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Old 02-07-2014   #23
Westminster, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2010
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 286
I think you will like the boat. If you make it to golden, co I'm sure my buddy will let you stop by and sit in his Stinger and check it out.
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Old 02-07-2014   #24
Flagstaff, Arizona
Paddling Since: 2002
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 384
River Vibe, you'll love the way this boat paddles & feels. This is my first and only LL boat. The only reason I went for the Stinger is because I was looking for a FAST, nimble self support boat. After doing my homework it became clear that the Stinger XP is currently (not for long) the best option for what I wanted. I'm sure the JK Karma thing will be awesome, but it's not available yet. What Tim has described I can attest to & I'm really happy I own this boat. Friends are lining up to paddle it & coming backed stoked. My boat is about to make it's 3rd lap on GC since mid-December. Also, River Vibe I have a friend in BV with a Stinger you could check out, PM me if interested.
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Old 02-07-2014   #25
Colorado Springs, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2010
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 265
Yeah, dug a ditch with this one...and hijacked the thread to boot, something I totally didn't mean to do.
For the record, I own 3 LL boats--two XP9s and a Jefe. I also own a Fluid Expedition (now the Big Bang I think) and a Spice. All have their appropriate places and uses.

In that vein, I don't feel every boat does it all...and so could see myself selling off the two XP9s for two Stingers for my crossover needs, but despite all the hype, I don't see the sense....but this is purely regarding the crossover realm...which isn't what OP was asking so my apologies to him for hijacking.

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