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Old 07-17-2014   #51
Erie, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2002
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 67
Originally Posted by duct tape View Post
I've owned three RPM's or variants (RPM Max and Redline). None, given the longer length compared to most current play and creek boats, were any heavier.
I have Wavesport EZ from 2002 and a Dagger Jitsu 5.9 from 2014 sitting in my garage and I for sure thought that the Wavesport EZ is sooooo much heavier than the Jitsu. This of course giving me the satisfaction of writing a reply saying YOU ARE WRONG, WRONG, WRONG...

But before putting my foot in my mouth, yet again, I decided to look up the specs on each boat.

Wavesport EZ: 6' 9", 47 gal, and 34 lbs.
Dagger Jitsu 5.9: 5' 9.5", 57 gal, and 31 lbs.

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Old 07-17-2014   #52
duct tape's Avatar
Colorado Springs, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1974
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 644
Never believe those manufacturer's specs (sorry Craw). I have a 30+ year history of portaging on several continents. My right shoulder scale is very accurate.

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Old 07-20-2014   #53
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2004
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,097
I've come full circle on this. Still remember the horror of the first creekboat I cracked in less than a year. Had years averaging about 40 days a boat til crack, which pretty much tracked with when low water hit at the end of the season. I've cracked a boat in 3 days by taking it to escalante at low water(dumb). Similar to the stages of grief, there are stages when dealing with cracked boats... 1) anger, 2) why can't they fix it, 3) acceptance, 4) plastic welding.

I think that the current set up it is pretty good. Kayak manufacturers probably warranty single digit %'s of kayaks (Marty once told me Jackson was 3%). The user group that cracks creekboats is predominantly class IV/V creekers paddling sharp mank (ie CO / SE). From a business perspective it probably makes more economic sense to warranty the 3% of boats than it does to spend extra money trying to get to that last perfect 100%. 100% is also likely not achievable.

Jackson revolutionized the industry when they set up a straight up warranty program that allowed cracked boat users to get a warranty boat. After jackson did this, many others followed, and now most manufacturers will warranty boats with some level of ease. If they don't, don't buy from them. Some manufacturers still suck at this.

I made crosslink polymers in grad school in chemical engineering, and I know how difficult it is to get the recipe just right to get a material that is just right. Its also costly to build new molds. Thats part of the reason why the nomad has been essentially unchanged for a decade, and it took prijon forever to get a modern creekboat.

Also, prijon has not fully solved it. They may withstand rock scrapes, but they still fail on swims and you can't get your hands on a prijon now in the states

The solution in my opinion is to 1) buy a creekboat from a manufacturer that has a great warranty (love Jackson for this!), 2) get a mank boat, and 3) always have a new boat and a mank boat on hand. You need to learn how to plastic weld or have the cash to buy new boats if you paddle in CO. Its been several years since I had only one creekboat in the garage. If you can't buy a new boat, buy a cracked mankboat and learn to patch it up.

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