Hypalon vs. PVC?

[raftus]

Originally Posted by lhowemt

Hypalon is heavier.

This is a highly suspect, and mostly untrue statement. Most rafts of a given size are similar in weight, although some manufacturers are typically heavier (Star, Vanguard, Riken). Others vary significantly by model line (NRS). Often Polyurethane boats are the lightest for a given size.

Check out this comparison table:

WA :: Whitewater Small Raft Shopping Guide

Other highlights of Hypalon vs. PVC:

Hypalon rolls better and smaller, can be stored rolled
PVC boats should be stored inflated
PVC boats usually get stiffer
PVC boats often have harder floors that are better for standing on and fishing from
Older glued PVC boats often have seam failures and general glue failures around 10 years
Welded PVC boats hold up very well, newer glues used are also better than older glues for PVC
PVC boats seem to develop more pinhole leaks over time, especially if they are rolled and stored/transported rolled

Also worth noting, older boats with military valves and gum rubber chaffers are often considerably heavier than newer boats with Leafield valves and polyurethane chaffers.

[lhowemt]

Originally Posted by raftus

This is a highly suspect, and mostly untrue statement.

I contend that for comparable boats, a hypalon boat will be heavier. Say NRS expedition vs SOTAR. It seems that the more expedition type/quality of boats, the hypalon ones require/have more fabric, more wear patches, etc and the boat ends up heavier. Simple comparison, NRS E140 weighs 148 lbs, SOTAR 14' weighs 125. It can be debated any way, I was using the simple specifications put out for the standard boats.

[JohnHemlock]

Anyone use an Achilles? They seem to be popular with Alaskan outfitters and AAA has one on sale.

[Ziggy]

any thoughts on Incepts?

[Andy H.]

I almost bought a 12' Incept last year as a second, small play and paddle boat and heard from folks up in ID and MT where they're more common that they're OK. Not the best but not the worst. I'd expect to pay a few hundred $ less than for a similar sized brand name boat.

[raftus]

Originally Posted by lhowemt

I contend that for comparable boats, a hypalon boat will be heavier. Say NRS expedition vs SOTAR. It seems that the more expedition type/quality of boats, the hypalon ones require/have more fabric, more wear patches, etc and the boat ends up heavier. Simple comparison, NRS E140 weighs 148 lbs, SOTAR 14' weighs 125. It can be debated any way, I was using the simple specifications put out for the standard boats.

Sotar's are made of Polyurethane, not PVC...There is a real difference, Polyurethane is probably the best fabric for making rafts.

Also a Hyside Hypalon 14' Outfitter Pro Series (164 ASBU) starts at 109 lbs. And Hyside's heaviest 14' 3" boat is 123 lbs. Lighter than SOTAR. But SOTAR does make great boats.

NRS makes some heavy boats. So does Riken. And with PVC so does Star. These are design choices not related to the underlying fabric or coating.

As I said the first time the brand and model/line has significant influence on weight. More so than the fabric. Hypalon isn't heavier - base fabrics, coating thickness, chafer materials, valve choices, number of seams - these things determine weight or a raft. Check out the comparison link I posted earlier and you will ave a deeper understanding.

[lhowemt]

There in lies the difference. I don't see Hyside as comparable to NRS or Sotar, but we all have our preferences and opinions, and none of them ever match another's!

Originally Posted by raftus

Also a Hyside Hypalon 14' Outfitter Pro Series (164 ASBU) starts at 109 lbs. And Hyside's heaviest 14' 3" boat is 123 lbs. Lighter than SOTAR. But SOTAR does make great boats.

[raftus]

Originally Posted by lhowemt

I don't see Hyside as comparable to NRS or Sotar, but we all have our preferences and opinions, and none of them ever match another's!

Why don't you see Hysides as comparable to NRS or SOTAR's? Could you please elaborate?

There are a couple of reasons that I prefer Hyside's current boats to NRS':

1. Thwart Attachment system - I have had a lot of annoyances with the thwart cards - they slip out and the hypalon holding them fails. This has happened repeatedly to me on commercial trips. I prefer the Hyside approach with the hinge - I haven't see one broken yet.

2. Chaffers - Hyside stopped using gum chaffers when they got rid of their military valves. Polyurethane coatings are slicker for getting off rocks and have a higher abrasion resistance than gum chaffers. The urethane is also lighter weight. Compare a NRS E-140 (14') to a Hyside 166 ASBU (14'3"), the NRS weighs 148, the Hyside 118.

I was under the impression, possibly false, that NRS had basically knocked off Hysides design some years back when NRS started making rafts. Or maybe it was just the similar design and use of blue hypalon.

For a long time I have thought that Hysides and Avons were the gold standard in hypalon rafts. I have guided Hyside, NRS, Avon, Wing, Maravia, Domar, DIB, AIRE, and Riken rafts. I've never guided SOTAR boats but have always been impressed at their speed - they always seem to be the winning boats in the rafting national championships.