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Old 03-26-2013   #21
slamkal's Avatar
vancouver, Washington
Paddling Since: 1996
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,146
Hey I'm gonna upgrade my kit this summer. Anyone interested in a lightly used NRS kit? Never used to unpin a raft but we did use it under tension for moving gear to assist a hellacious portage on the owyhee around widowmaker

PM me if interested

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Old 03-27-2013   #22
lmyers's Avatar
Buena Vista, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,207
Originally Posted by ouachita View Post
Why would you not carry one?
I know the OP was referring to rafts, but there are times I do not carry one in my kayak. Especially if I am running a playboat, but at the same time I have had to put one to use several times when guiding beginners down Browns.... so essentially even in a kayak I carry one unless I'm only going to the playpark or town run.

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Old 03-27-2013   #23
caverdan's Avatar
C. Springs, Colorado
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,443
I carry one on overnight and multi day trips, but rarely take it on day runs like Browns or the Upper C
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Old 03-27-2013   #24
eljim's Avatar
Overseas, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 135
Do you ski backcountry without a beacon, probe, and shovel? It's pretty easy to have your prussiks, beaners, and pulleys on you PFD. Coupled with a throw bag with strong enough rope for a raft situation in your boat. I wear a doubled over flip line, that goes around me 3x for building an anchor and clipping to lightly pinned kayaks wether I'm in me kayak or pushing rubber. Taking a swift water rescue class is also a good idea, I paddle with people that do this also. I don't have any climbing nuts on my kit, which I do need to add.
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Old 03-27-2013   #25
Boise, Idaho
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 427
When solo cat boating on my PFD I hang two screwgate rescue biners each with a pulley and a prussik from the underarm tension straps. Two spectra throwbags are strapped to the boat, 75 footer front right and 50 footer back left...extra cordage and webbing in bag strapped atop one tube.

Multidays get a bigger kit with static rescue rope, gloves and extra safety gear, extra pulleys, biners, runners, cordage, webbing, cams, nuts, chocks, fig-8s, satellite HBO transmitter, solar powered margarita blender, etc.
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Old 03-28-2013   #26
palidog's Avatar
Frisco, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1994
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 55
I pinned my raft in the Maze, Salt River. The only thing that came off the rig was my pin kit. It floated directly to a kayak, and he pulled me off the rock. Best safety boater ever.
" The Dude abides....."
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Old 03-28-2013   #27
glenn's Avatar
BZN, Montana
Paddling Since: 2008
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,489
Originally Posted by eljim View Post
Do you ski backcountry without a beacon, probe, and shovel?
Not quite apples to apples. Beacon-shovel-probe is probably closer to PFD-helmet-throwbag. Except in situations where vertical pinning is a reality or where you need the food/fire/etc that is on the pinned raft (wilderness) z-drags aren't a life/death tool. I guess escaping by using a z-drag system to haul/ascend would be another must have situation. Again, not the same as the standard roadside, comfort level runs. I carry mine always so it's there without having to think about it, but I don't even ask what other people are carrying until the whitewater or the exposure gets real.
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Old 03-30-2013   #28
Thronton, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2008
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 665
Originally Posted by rafterman View Post
...Multidays get a bigger kit with static rescue rope, gloves and extra safety gear, extra pulleys, biners, runners, cordage, webbing, cams, nuts, chocks, fig-8s...
That's a great idea, having the cams, nuts, etc in there with the standard gear. And it gives me an excuse to go shopping to upgrade what I already have! LoL
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Old 03-31-2013   #29
Wavester's Avatar
NorCal, California
Paddling Since: 91
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 330
I think the safe answer is to bring one especially since you said your running a self supported trip. But just as important is learning how to use one and practicing regularly. Rope skills are definitely perishable skills so even if you had the class a few years a go you would be surprised how quick you can forget stuff.
That being said I have left my Z-drag kit at home on rare accasions if I know the group I'm with has several.
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Old 04-02-2013   #30
KSC's Avatar
Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2003
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,031
I carry one if I think I might need it, but then I'm not a rafter. Is the z-drag used regularly for raft pins? It seems like standard WW safety protocol to bring a kit, but I've actually never been in a situation where it was really useful. Mostly I've set up z-drags to try and remove wood. It might have helped, but usually either it never moves, or it's standing on the log and kicking, pulling, and screaming that finally knocks it loose. Kayaks seem to almost always come off by pulling at an angle, or again, getting on top of it and shoving it around.

The one time we tried to use a z-drag to pull a commercial raft off a bad wrap, half a dozen guys pulled so hard all we did was rip off a d-ring. Finally we got it off by pulling from the other side of the river with no mechanical advantage.

Just curious what people's experience is here? The z-drag certainly has some applications, but in my experience they're a lot more rare than most people make them out to be.

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