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Old 04-05-2009   #1
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4
Gear geeks- denier?

Can anyone tell me specifically why a Hyside (Outfitter Pro) weighs less but has a higher denier count (by far) than a DRE Pro? I am geeked out on the specifics and because we can't seem to find a used Hyside (no longer patient) we are looking at DRE Pro 140 vs. a 14 ft. Outfitter Pro. The DRE boat is priced about $1,100.00 less than the equivalent Hyside (new-not used). Hyside is 2520 denier/118 pds with 21" tubes vs. DRE 1260 denier/ 139 pds with 20" tubes. Another option would be the NRS expedition with 1670 denier/ 148 pds and 20" tubes. I prefer smaller tubes, lighter weight, have a hyside padillac (that I love) and am now graduating to my (our) own boat- that is if we can make a decision... DRE is instant gratification but for the extra dollars maybe we should just go with the Hyside. Any help would be appreciated- seriously!!!

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Old 04-05-2009   #2
Highlands Ranch, CO Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 482
How many layers do each have? That would make a weight difference.

I didn't see it mentioned on their site but I think the DRE boat has urethane coated tubes, which gives you some great abrasion protection.

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Old 04-05-2009   #3
Chip's Avatar
SE, Wyoming
Paddling Since: 1986
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,098
Denier is a measure of the mass and density of fibers. So a higher denier for a fabric means either thicker strands or more of them, per unit of length.

The synthetic fiber core in a raft fabric is coated with airtight goop: Hypalon, PVC, neoprene, etc.

So denier indicates the basic toughness of a fabric, i.e. resistance to tearing, while the type, number, and thickness of coatings governs how airtight and abrasion-resistant it is.
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Old 04-05-2009   #4
swimteam101's Avatar
Steamboat, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 329

If you have the money go for the hyside or nrs e boat. I bought an E 140 2 years ago and it's bomber. I think the dre boat is in the same class as an otter or bravo. Nice people they made me a great frame but I was not convinced on the rubber.
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Old 04-06-2009   #5
The Box, ~
Paddling Since: 1992
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 199
Denier is one of many ways to measure material strength, but should NOT be the only thing you consider. One brands slightly higher denier may actually be weaker than another brands lower denier. This is because the major brands use nylon or polyester as their base fabrics. A lot of brands only tell what their denier is and not if it is polyester or nylon. The type of material is as important as the denier, so you can compare apples to apples.

Polyester threads are less stretchy, but are weaker than nylon threads. Nylon is stronger, but more stretchy. Polyester cloth requires a higher-denier thread count than nylon to achieve the same strength.

This does not necessarily mean that one is better than the other. Half of the major brands use polyester and the other half nylon. The polyester boats are stiffer and more responsive. The nylon boats are more stretchy and bouncy making them less responsive in theory. Some people believe that the nylon is less likely to be damaged because of the more stretch upon impact and the polyester will have limited stretch before it tears. Personally, I believe majority of the boaters could only tell a slim difference in performance!

The amount of coating is important. You could have three different cloths with the same denier, but the overall weight be completely different. This is because one brand may have 80%, the other 50%, and the other 25% of their coating be the overall weight of the cloth. Again, another reason not to just look at denier alone.
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Old 04-09-2009   #6
Mr Beaver's Avatar
Portland, Oregon
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 188
Originally Posted by swimteam101 View Post
If you have the money go for the hyside or nrs e boat. I bought an E 140 2 years ago and it's bomber. I think the dre boat is in the same class as an otter or bravo. Nice people they made me a great frame but I was not convinced on the rubber.

I don't own a NRS, but their expedition boats might be the toughest on planet earth.

But, I am completely happy with my Aire. Other than the extra weight.

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comparison, denier, dre, hyside, nrs

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