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Old 05-07-2010   #11
SimpleMan's Avatar
Fort Collins, Colorado
Paddling Since: '05
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 394
Just want to get out without breaking the bank, like you said. This is a one season boat for me. Worth $100? Realy appreciate all the input. Happy Friday.

Dude, I'd see you on the river but I'm hardly ever out there.
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Old 05-07-2010   #12
Jenks, Oklahoma
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,408
The RPM and RPM Max are the most sold models of any kayak ever designed. They have a lot going for them still. Many of the current hot dog moves were first worked out in a RPM.

Both have stood the test of time.

Both have soft edges which means that if you have a proper J lean, you can carve a mean circle in these boats. And, be very stable.

Both are fast. If you get a RPM or RPM Max your buds in the short boats will be sweating bullets attempting to keep you in sight as you cruise down stream and they work.

Right now I have a RPM Max that I purchased new in 1996. I still use this boat a lot. It is fast, surfs like a dream and is a great down river boat.

I also have 7 other kayaks. some modern some older designs.

I enjoy them all.

I read all this verbiage about older designs being worthless and that a newby must buy one of the new short sharp edged designs if you want to be a good boater. With a big grin on my face.

NEWSFLASH: It is not the boat as much as it is the paddler.

Granted these older longer designs like the RPM series will not normally do front loops like the short phat designs do. But for all around river running for the average yakker, they do just fine. Great learning kayaks altho the short sharp edged boats will give you instant feedback when they catch an edge and flip.

My advice on starting out kayaking is to get the cheapest boat with reasonable quality of design you can. Check with your buddies and see what they advise. Then get on the water with hopefully some professional instruction if you can find it or with your buds if not. Buy any of the good basic instructional DVD's and work on technique.

Over time, It does not matter what design kayak you learn in. Get the basics in a long fast round edged older design like the RPM or in a short edgey slow newer design. The basics like edge tilt, J lean, proper posture are basically the same with maybe a few differences depending on the boat you learn in. Most will get familiar with the rivers they want to run and buy another kayak within a year or as soon as they figure out what is happening in a kayak on a local stream.

Main thing is for a newby to get out on suitable water while it is warm and easy to learn. Do it now and do not wait till the cold weather returns.

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Old 05-07-2010   #13
DanOrion's Avatar
Indian Hills, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,448
I think you are on the right path. Hopefully spending only $100 on a boat will leave you with extra cash for a decent booties, helmet and drytop, all of which will contribute greatly to a fun first season on whitewater.
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Old 05-07-2010   #14
rg5hole's Avatar
Durango, Colorado
Paddling Since: 06
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 450
Not only is the RPM a good boat but people recognize it, thus when you move on it will be easier to sell.
I've never boated before, but I have posted a lot on Mountain Buzz!
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Old 05-07-2010   #15
Ft Collins, Colorado
Paddling Since: 92
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 38
Strong plug for the Redline. I'm similar dimensions to you (5'7", 135#), and it was my quiver-of-one boat for several international trips when I needed to teach/guide/demo, safety boat, and creek with overnight expedition gear. The Redline is shorter and more stable than the RPM, and a WAY more flexible boat. It's quite a bit easier to paddle and surf, too. The "kinda-sorta" planing hull will help your learning progression quite a bit.

Mind you, I'm not hating on the RPM, but it's got a pretty specific niche at this point, and I can't see you using it after your first year, except for downriver races. You could use the Redline for years to come on rivers that challenge you. If it's really down to these two models, i'd have a strong preference for the Redline. If you came up with 250 bones, that would open up a lot of EZ-like options that might work even better for you.

Either way, buy something and get out there! If the number of smiles is related to your boat model, you might be doing something wrong...
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Old 05-07-2010   #16
Land of Lovin, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2006
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,449
I've seen one beginner in an RPM, the poor guy swam Filter Plant about 4 times in one run - the most I've ever seen a newb swim that run. Perhaps I am biased due to the only example I have of a new kayaker in an RPM.
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Old 05-07-2010   #17
surrounded by mountains, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1981
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 475

Unless someone's giving you the boat for free, I still say "why bother" spending your money on that technology? Sure, many of us enjoyed the boats back in the day and we did all kinds V/V+ successfully. That was then. This is now. It is kind of like spending $100 for a narrow, straight, pair of 1970s skis today. Why bother when you can easily buy slightly used, but almost new, fat shaped skis for 1, 2, or 3 hundy now? Used newer boats are plentiful for reasonable amounts and could last you for years to come. They should be a better place to put your money into. The learning curve and enjoyment is much improved with them. The larger cockpits take larger skirts, too, so you don't need to waste $ on, both, old sprayskirts and boats. Check the Buzz swap tab or go to boat swap events this month. I'd advise you to stay with a river-runner or creek boat, though.

Again, unless it's free or your assembling a museum of nostalgic boats, buy a Y, Diesel, Burn, Jefe, Nomad, Punk Rocker, or something.

I recently pulled down my old Mirage I and sat in it after sitting in my Diesel. Unbelievable! It is no wonder why kids these days catch on to boating immediately with the new equipment. The old equipment are relics and primarily a waste of your money and a good day(s) of boating. As the saying goes, "Lifes to short to use bad equipment." ) Enjoy!
No risk, no reward. It is not that we have to, it is that we get to. Preparation and education are essential to self-confidence and success. - KV
"If there is no risk there is no adventure."- Bill Briggs
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Old 05-10-2010   #18
SimpleMan's Avatar
Fort Collins, Colorado
Paddling Since: '05
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 394
Thanks for all the thoughts y'all. I shelled out $100 for the old Redline, and got out on the Poudre over the weekend. I had a ball. The boat is amazingly uncomfortable, like y'all said. The planing hull surprised me at first, but I quickly got used to it. I saw more wildlife floating from Shields to Strauss cabin than any other trip this year. Gonna do the flat in town part one more time, and head up to Filter Plant. I'm hooked for sure. So much less gear than rafting! (duh)

Ken, I dig what you're saying, but disagree with the premise. It was old and busted kayak, or no kayak at all. Given, I will love a newer, more comfortable boat when I can afford it. For now, I'm kayaking and loving it. (with sore knees). Every new sport I"ve ever gotten into in my life I got into because there was old gear out there for pennies. I have slowly upgraded, but never regretted buying the old and busted.

I tried the RPM, and it was so tippy that it kind of scared me. Wisdom about the Redline being less "tippy" was right on Jen.

Again, thanks y'all. See you on Filter Plant soon. (Just look for the guy with the skinny1970s skis)
Dude, I'd see you on the river but I'm hardly ever out there.
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Old 05-10-2010   #19
Land of Lovin, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2006
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,449
Originally Posted by SimpleMan View Post
I tried the RPM, and it was so tippy that it kind of scared me. Wisdom about the Redline being less "tippy" was right on Jen.
F-ing A Simpleman, thank you! Everyone tells me I'm wrong on this but my personal experience in a displacement hull was scary at first.

PM me when you feel you're ready for Filter Plant, I'll help catch your boat, lol.
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Old 05-10-2010   #20
SimpleMan's Avatar
Fort Collins, Colorado
Paddling Since: '05
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 394
F-ing A! I'll tell you that having grown up on lake kayaks my first experience in a displacement hull boat felt like there was something wrong with it. This was two years ago, and what I learned from getting into that old school boat was that river kayaking was insane because their boats are designed to not stay up right. I almost never tried it again. Whereas this redline seems to want to stay upright, though the first time I overcorrected that edge DUMPED me in a hurry. It's OK to make fun of me for this. I drank a booty beer, promise.

Soon as I take a roll class I'd love to have you catch my boat Jen.

Thanks again y'all. SYOTR


Dude, I'd see you on the river but I'm hardly ever out there.
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