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Old 04-17-2014   #1
Rockville, Maryland
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1
Crossover Kayaks

My Kayak buddies and I are just getting into white water on the Potomac river. I've had a perception carolina 12 for the past two years which has been good on flat water and has worked in areas like Mathers Gorge but is just too big so I sold it. Now I'm looking at crossover kayaks because I want to be able to have fun on class 1-2 or 3 rapids but also be able to go on flat water stretches for miles while doing over night or day trips.

Anyways here's a list of kayaks I've gathered from the internet, can anyone tell me more about them or any tips in general? I'm looking to buy one soon and don't really know how to narrow down this selection:

Dagger Katana 9.7ft
Dagger approach 9ft/10ft
Remix 59 8.1ft
Remix XP9
Fusion Connect 30 L
Jackson Rogue 9 9.4ft
Wave Sport Ethos 10

thanks for your time and also im 5'11" and 150 lbs

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Old 04-17-2014   #2
Durango, Colorado
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 390
Katana, Remix XP, or the Rogue IMO.

The Approach is outdated and was never a good boat. Remix 59 isn't a crossover. And the Ethos is a good boat, but very difficult to access the bow for storage. I have no experience with the Fusion, but I don't much care for Pyranha's outfitting.

The Katana is the most whitewater worthy of the three, great outfitting and has a removable pillar for easy access to the front. This would be my personal choice, but I'm looking at it from more of a Class III-IV standpoint.

The XP also has a removable pillar, but seems a lot wider and less responsive than the rest. The hatch pretty much sucks and I personally don't care for the outfitting. Tracks slightly better on flatwater thanks to the grooves in the hull, but is less responsive in whitewater and seems slow all around.

The Rogue is the smallest of the three, but is a decent hull design for both whitewater and flatwater. Has Jackson's signature outfitting which some love / some hate. The footpegs are very easily removable, so access to the bow is easiest in this one.

Demo each if you can. One person's dream boat is anothers POS.

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Old 04-19-2014   #3
gdtrfb8's Avatar
Silverton, Oregon
Paddling Since: 2010
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 67
Fusion vs. Rogue

I can't speak to all of the boats you mention (though Storm11 covered them well), but I can speak to the Fusion and Rogue. These were the first boats my wife and I purchased. I mainly paddled the Fusion (Small, Connect 30) and my wife the Rogue (9). They were both great for what we wanted to do - Flat water and entry-level (~ Class II) whitewater. As we got more into WW we moved to dedicated WW boats.

The Fusion was narrower, and seemed to have more rocker, so it was faster and may have been a bit more agile. However, it was also less stable, and the Rogue was certainly put together better - better outfitting, better/larger hatch, center pillar up front, etc. The Rogue can go Class III-IV if you really want, but at that point I personally think it's time for a dedicated WW. My vote out of these 2 would go to the Rogue.

Paddling them all is obviously ideal, followed by sitting in them, followed by simply reading reviews and gathering opinions. Good luck, have fun, and be safe!
"This river don't go to Aintry."
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Old 04-24-2014   #4
jtp72's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 40
My son and I have ethos 9 and 10 and we love them. They have a bulkhead instead of the foot pegs in the xp or rogue and the outfitting is really nice. We haven't had them on whitewater yet because we are still learning but they do great on flat water and I've been told the ethos and katana are the most whitewater worthy boats in the crossover class of boats.

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Old 04-24-2014   #5
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Buena Vista, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,207
I paddle a Fusion med. and totally dig it. The only issue I have is the lack of a center pilar, makes the boat feel a bit soft when boofing it fully loaded...but it has lots of storage space and is very fast, I would venture to say faster than all the options listed.

Cutch paddled his down the upper Taos Box if that says anything about the boats whitewater capabilities...

It is worth saying that I also have a Burn and a 420 and only use the Fusion for multi day trips and races.
GARNA’s mission is to foster stewardship of the resources of the greater Arkansas River region through education, volunteerism and experiences.
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Old 04-24-2014   #6
Colorado Springs, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2010
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 265
I have two XP9s if that helps. They're great for lakes with the family or kids or friends, but they're also pretty whitewater capable. I also have the Fluid Expedition, but that's pretty much a WW boat with a hatch--not much crossover there. I looked at a Rogue the other day, had a chance to buy it when I picked up my 2nd XP9. I didn't like the Rogue's hull shape compared to the XP9...but that's an opinion, not seat time.

I'm still working on my WW game (and changing boats frequently), but am very, very happy with my two XP9s.
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Old 04-28-2014   #7
shredjesse's Avatar
Plymouth, New Hampshire
Paddling Since: 2012
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 49
I've got a Katana 10.4. I picked it up used this past January. Dude bought it (it's only been out six months now or so) and ran the Colorado river, then sold it to me for a fair price.

I'm pretty new to white water as I just took the AMC white water school this past weekend, but I did pretty good and ran everything without any major issues or swimming.

One thing that quickly became apparent with this boat is it's fast. Point it, paddle twice and you're hauling ass down the rapids. I had to eddy out a lot and chill. It just wants to take off!

I can't honestly compare stability or anything else as I haven't tried much else, but it does seem to be pretty purpose built to get you through rapids promptly as you are probably on a multi-day trip and not looking to burn excess energy.

With just a dry bag of clothes up front, a six pack of beer in the back, and some lunch, I could feel the weight in the kayak. Still though, it did everything I needed for the class, ran the difficult class II part everyone scouted no problem, and had little to no issues.

I picked up the 10.4 due to the price, but if I could do it again I most certainly would be in the 9'. The 10' seems to be a lot of overkill.

Oh, and the skeg works like a dream. When your arms are falling off, it eats up all of your sloppy form and keeps you going straight no problem.
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Old 04-28-2014   #8
Enfield, New Hampshire
Paddling Since: 1990
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 332

Hi Jesse,
Nice review of the Katana.Just FYI, Sweet tooth at that level was an honest to God cl 3. If you want to go to the Pemi any wknd let me know.
Six o three,six three 2,nine 2 seven 0.

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Old 04-28-2014   #9
shredjesse's Avatar
Plymouth, New Hampshire
Paddling Since: 2012
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 49
Hey alright! Glad to run into you here. I'll definitely give you a ring sometime! Very cool that was class III. It was fun!
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Old 04-29-2014   #10
shredjesse's Avatar
Plymouth, New Hampshire
Paddling Since: 2012
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 49

Not sure if this helps, but this is a picture from this past weekend. Kind of gives you an idea of just how big the Katan series is. LOTS of volume, and a very healthy amount of length!

The red boat parallel and ahead of me is a mamba 8.6 I think. The red boat perpendiclar in front of me is a liquid logic XP9.

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