Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-15-2005   #1
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 16
Creek boat: chine or no chine

I am considering getting a creek boat. I will not be running anything too difficult; my thoughts are Bailey, Gore, Clear Creek and the like. I really like the response of carving my river runner and play boat into and out of eddies. I do not like the thought of missing eddies because the rounded edges of a true creeker might cause the boat to push. When creeking, will chines make the boat too grabby? I know true creek boats have rounded edges to make them more forgiving, but I do not plan on running anything too hardcore.

Which boats should I look at? Which creek or pseudo-creek boats have chines (I know the H3 does)? I am 5'9", 205 lbs., 30" inseam and size 9 feet.

Any input is greatly appreciated! Thanks, D-

D_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2005   #2
Force's Avatar
Bham, Washington
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 463
i'd go with no chines. they tend to be a weakpoint in the hull of creakboats which leads to big cracks (i've seen 4 M-3's crack on the hull chine). however a creekboat with a planning full will paddle a lot like a playboat.

i would recomend the LL Jefe or if you still want a planning hull an M-3.

Force is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2005   #3
Phillips's Avatar
Lakewood, Colorasta
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 843
You should consider a Salto, Jefe, Nomad. It's responsive, boofs and tracks real well. Chines on a Creek boat are a little silly if you ask me. If you can't control a traditional creek boat then you probrably shouldn't be there. When I started creekin in the Salto, I had no idea how to paddle. Now I'm pretty OK and am starting to run harder drops with confidence. It takes time. Don't cut corners.
Phillips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2005   #4
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 16
I had read a comment from someone (maybe tpalka) about getting spanked in Pine Creek because the boat, an El Jefe, pushed in a turn and he wound up in "the" hole. He could not paddle out because everytime he worked his way to the eges, he was pushed back into the meat. I know that hole is nasty at bigger water, but I would think that hard edges would have made exiting the hole easier.

Originally Posted by Force
...they tend to be a weakpoint in the hull of creakboats...
I did not think about the chines being the weak point (even though it is obvious!!! )

Originally Posted by Phillips
If you can't control a traditional creek boat then you probrably shouldn't be there
I am used to using draw strokes to rotate the boat. With a planing hull you can do that, but not with a displacement (at least not easily)
D_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2005   #5
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 176
Ok so I say we use a little logic to awnser this question. First off you say you are interested in running "Bailey, Gore, Clear Creek and the like". These are pretty standard runs with no big drops. Would you say you want to be in control or out of control preferably? What boats did you learn to paddle in old school displacement or more modern planning hull boats? The reason I ask is if you learned in a planning hull it will be a harsh transition back to a less responsive design. Mind you boats like the JEfe and the Salto are technically planning hulls with alot of belly or very slightly displaced so they will plane just not as effeciently as a flat playboat but neither have the edge. I personally have paddled just about every creek boat out there and my personal favorites are the Salto and M3. I have not tried the Nomad or the Jefe however. ( Still pissed about the 32 holes in my leaking ass Kingpin so I am boycotting and I have heard of several Jefes broken this year not a good sign when the old liquid logics were bomb proof). I personally learned to paddle in a huricane; long and displaced hull. My first creeker was a micro 240 and it still ranks as one of my favorites. Draws with these old boats work great you can change position laterally in the river with out turning. Corks like the CFS and the huka sit high and you paddle them forward sideways backwards but dont try a bow draw because you will spin. ANyway back to the point rails. I am now paddling a M3 from a Salto and here is what I like. THe m3 carves like a demon any micro eddy in the scariest S#*% can be caught unlike the Salto which misses eddies if you are not totally on it. I also like the secondary stability the rail provides this alows more leaning with the boat to work the drop. THis can be very helpful, it sucks when you have a long torso so every learn is scetchy. Both boats have good rocker unlike prijons "torpido". I have never been concerened about grabby edges in a creek boat you have so much volume that you wont even know you have the edge until you want it, unless you are paddling a tweener like an h3 or diesel both of which are great boats but these edges can trip you up. For me my only concern with the edges is how the effect the width of the hull. Edges extend the width and thus increase the overall surface area of the planning surface. if you land a big fall flat in the m3 it could deffinitly f#%* your S$@* up more so than a displacement hull. but I think the control the edges give you going off the lip outweighs the potential for disaster at the bottom. If you land any big drop flat in any boat you are going to get hurt. The edges help you to get into position to run it right not just fall off the edge. As far as breaking goes technically any edge on a boat is going to be a potential weak spot however if the boat is built right they will beef up the edge with more plastic thus eliminating this concern. All creek boats break dont buy a boat for this reason just cary a patch so if it does you are not hiking your ass out.
mrekid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2005   #6
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 16
RE; mrekid

Thanks for the input mrekid.

Originally Posted by mrekid
First off you say you are interested in running "Bailey, Gore, Clear Creek and the like". These are pretty standard runs with no big drops... What boats did you learn to paddle in old school displacement or more modern planning hull boats? The reason I ask is if you learned in a planning hull it will be a harsh transition back to a less responsive design...
Correct, at this point in my life, neither I nor my back are not interested in "big drops". I learned to paddle in a Redline; so yes, a planing hull, but nothing like todays planing hull boats. (boats I have paddled inclulde: redline, godzilla, in-a-zone, hammer, outlaw, madness, centrifuge, vulcan, ID, Juice, I:3, kompressor). I did not like that the Kompressor would not change your line no matter how hard I tried. The boat has a light keel which makes it track super-straight, but you had better not need to change lines. I assume the chine on the Redline would be similar to that of the El Jeffe, Salto and Micro. I understandd that a "planing hull creeker" want to rotate in funky currents, but at this point in my paddling career, I am used to putting the boat on edge and carving my line through the pushy/funky water.

I do not like the fact that every Dagger I have owned has oil-canned in a season or less!
D_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2005   #7
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 176
First off I think the redline has a pretty hard edge on it compared to the Salto of the Jefe. thae redline will carve substantially better than either of these two designs. My second thought is that the M3 which has a planing hull tracks so much better than the Huka or the CFS. I think it is more a function of the water line and the depth of the boazt in the water. The m3 requires more work to get on line but it holds a line very well. Boofs like a champ to.
mrekid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2005   #8
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 168
Chines on a creek boat are a pet peeve of mine. I personally think that hard chines have no business being on a creek boat. Here's why: They can get hung up on rocks. This is dangerous. Picture pealing out of an eddy and the chine grabs a pointy rock and either broaches you or sends you over the other side up side down in shallow water at the top of a must make move. A rounded creek boat would simply bounce right over. Not a liability I want to deal with. The other reason is a truly flat bottom boat doesn't roll off of rocks at all when boofing. Picture rolling up to a nice smooth boof rock that angles out of the water. With a rounded boat you can lean into the boof stroke and roll off the rock landing on your next paddle stroke on the other side. A flat bottom boat would simply smack flat against the rock making you land on the same side you took your boof stroke on. Not a good position to be in.

A good compromise is boats with a very soft chine and a fat bellies as stated above. The soft chine can help to track and carve, but wont get hung up on rocks. I personally think the very small chine on a Phat is perfect. The Hefe salto and others stated above also fall into this category. All I have to say about boats like the Y is why. They are liabilities
bigboater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2005   #9
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 159
Boats will split on the point of impact weather it is on the flat bottom of a Diesel or the rounded nose of a CFS a chine could be an impact point so it could split there too.
As far as oilcanning goes drag plastic over a rock long enough and it will deform the more pliable the plastic the more prone to oilcanning and the less prone to splitting.
When your boat does split its the crappy plastic, not the BAD line you choose or when your chine flips you is the chines fault.....

A hard chine makes the turn quicker a dislacement hull with rocker makes the big drop landing softer.

So does Ford, Chevy,Dodge or Toyota make the best truck as we all know the new Honda is a piece of crap????
Swim team capt. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2005   #10
Golden, Colorado
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 831
I switched from a H2 to a real creek boat with no chines this year (a Huka) and have had a really hard time, especially in powerful stuff. I run stuff like Black Rock, Bailey, Bear Creek, and low water on stuff like SSV. Nothing hard core and my skills leave plenty to be desired.

I kept spinning the Huka backwards and a few times I missed lines that I could not believe I missed. I had no problem in low volume stuff, but stuff like Pine Creek rapid @2000, Black Rock @700, Bailey @750 totally ate my lunch. I swam all of those. I was keeping my blades in the water and concentrating hard to stay on line, because I KNEW that it would spin if I made a mistake. I was shitting my pants all season. I guess I wasn't doing the right things with my blades.

I'm keeping the Huka and I'm going to paddle an old Emudo that I got from a friend and then try to transition into my Huka once again next year. If it doesn't work this time I am going to say fuck it and get an H3 or some hybrid river running creek boat so I can have fun again and give up any fantasies of becoming a steep creeker.

Ture is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Topic Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
creek boat vaultman14 Kayaking | Gear Talk 14 04-07-2006 02:07 PM
Lost Jackson Rocker Creek boat on fish creek progers Lost & Found 0 06-23-2005 09:43 PM
Creek boat Help huckit21 Whitewater Kayaking 1 04-13-2005 11:00 AM
Big guy creek boat MT Kayaking | Gear Talk 2 01-02-2005 06:06 PM
Fix my Creek Boat!! wycoloboater Whitewater Kayaking 5 06-30-2004 11:38 AM

» Classified Ads
Wavesport Diesel 60

posted by pattimiller747

Cool colors - purples, black and greys Lightly used two...

Fred the Fuse 48

posted by kayaklifeislife

My first boat the Wavesport Fuse 48 I'm just putting it on...

Jackson SuperStar

posted by bodhizafa

Jackson Superstar kayak, black color. In ok condition. ...

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities

Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:12 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.