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Old 03-17-2011   #41
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 49
It would torque me a lot less if the price of chaco's hadn't gone up $20-$30 since they moved prduction to China. Cheaper for the mfg often does not mean cheaper for the consumer -just bigger profits.

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Old 03-17-2011   #42
Jenks, Oklahoma
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,408
Osprey wrote
" We just gave up on places where margins aren't high enough to essentially justify our time or effort. We'd rather make the big and technical stuff instead of toys and shirts. "

I think this was the plan, but somewhere things went horribly wrong in the execution.

I am now retired. Made my living off Information Technology AKA computers.

Started out in the punched card era and watched and did my little part to get to the amazing use of computers that we enjoy today.

I was working in mid management when all the Harvard Business School articles came out on how much more efficient it was to move steel and other related industries overseas as we were joining the global family. Same B/S coming from the federal government and all the other think tanks. The word at the time was the USA would lead the world in providing financial services and Information Technology. Viva California Tech hub of the universe.

I was in upper management by the time the outsourcing of "basic programming tasks" was moved overseas. Scared me as I thought this might be the start of the end. Did all I could to not outsource, but the movement was more powerful than my little impact could handle.

IBM ruled the computer world. Rochester NY was building computers from the ground up. Jobs every were. I visited Rochester many times over the years and watched big time factory floors go from full manufacture of computers, to decent sized groups of assemblers of parts made overseas to warehouses for off shore produced computers to zero as big box retailers now got product direct from the container ships.

I watched programming tasks move up the line till we had only a few programmers but lots of systems people. They would design and the people off shore would do the programming over night. Then I saw the systems people training their replacements and they became help desk cause they could interface with the on site folks but the work was done over seas. Then I saw the help desk go to Bangalore India. I/T support was basically from a US Citizen doing sales, backed up by some one from over seas. They may be out there, but all those hi paying computer programming and systems jobs are next to impossible to find these days. About then was the time I was lucky to be able to retire.

I think the US economy has been based on consumption and it worked long as people had jobs here producing many of the things we consume. Jobs now are mostly overseas and what is remaining is going over some where else. Meanwhile our government has made it easier for foreign competition to do business here and difficult for US manufacturing to compete.

Heck, I live in Oklahoma. Once known as the oil capital of the world. No more. The industry moved to Houston and now my buds still working in the business there say every thing is moving off shore.

Our government finance is based on a ponzi scheme. Problem is the number of tax payers (read that working people as the super rich live in NYC but move their operations else where due to taxes and cheap labor) but the USA based decision makers spend borrowed money to make up for trillions of dollars our country spends here but a lot of spending abroad to do things we cannot afford.

A world wide military and manufacturing country only works when they produce more value than they consume. We are living during "interesting times".

I hope somewhere somehow we have kids coming along that will right the wrongs that have been done in the last 30 or 40 years. And, that current leadership has no clue as to how to solve.

Scary tho that we spend more money on education than most other countries yet student achievement is going lower each year.

What does all this have to do with boating. Some one mentioned driving hundreds of miles to enjoy boating. Same for me to enjoy boating. But cost to travel, to enjoy all those fabulous new boats and gear we now enjoy is about to reach levels that are hard to pay for.

Folks who have a good job with some time off and extra "disposable income" will continue to enjoy WW Boating and multi day float trips. Those who do not better hope something happens to turn things around.

The people leading our country worry about cutting a few million bucks from a spending budget that is trillions underwater and mostly financed by government bonds that we cannot pay down and right now cannot pay the interest.

Boys and girls enjoy what you have and pray, think good thoughts or what ever you believe in to keep "the good times rolling". Oops even that world class good time city is vacant and only another storm away from total destruction!

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Old 03-17-2011   #43
FrankC's Avatar
Golden, CO
Paddling Since: 1856
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 339
Originally Posted by wildh2onriver View Post
Why blast the Chinese, aren't they just opportunists? Most folks don't like paying a premium to support manufacturers here in the USA--so, those companies eventually look for cheaper production costs to compete, or sell out to larger companies who produce their products overseas.
I blame the greedy politicians and industrialists for opening up trade with a poverty stricken, oppresive communist country with no environmental or labor standards what so ever. Just rich people wanting to get richer by selling out the american worker. Not one american should have ever lost his job so a chinese peasant can make 25 cents an hour in a sweatshop.
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Old 03-17-2011   #44
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Golden, CO
Paddling Since: 1856
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 339
BTW this whole thing about blaming the consumer is bullshit. Obviously we dont shop that way. This country got along perfectly fine in the 60's and 70's without buying a thing from China. In fact it was illegal to trade with China. Now we have all these "Free Trade" aggreements that were supposed to work out so well for the good ol USA. Well guess how well that worked out? Duh, NOT winning.
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Old 03-17-2011   #45
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Carbondale, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2002
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 100
I received this response from Vere
We are very familiar with Chaco, and were sad to learn of their operations move to China. Vere Sandals is born from the growing desire among shoppers and owners of core surf and outdoor shops to see domestically made product. It also came from our founder's experience and observations working with factories in China and his belief that there is a better way to manufacture sandals that would involve less post industrial waste, and maintain high standards of fit, quality and comfort.

We are starting up and launching our brand this year with the first pair of sandals hitting select core surf and outdoor shops sometime in May. Hopefully the success we anticipate for our brand can radiate and inspire other upstarts to produce domestically made product. Larger conglomerates are too focused on maximizing profit (usually at the expense of quality, among others) and don't seem to get it. But then again, who knows. with the rise of labor costs in China, and the fluctuation of fuel prices for shipping, the cost advantage of overseas production may diminish enough to bring some manufacturing back.

Regarding taking over the void left behind by Chaco's departure, that would be a great opportunity considering the great and well deserved loyalty they have built up over the years. One look at our styles and you notice we only have 3 point (thong) sandals in the line up. Our background has mainly been in the development and manufacture of 3 point sandals and this is where we wanted to focus as the brand launched. Adding a heel strap is a whole new dynamic, and adds to the additional labor and material costs beyond what we can afford to do at a profit at this time. So maybe y'all can think of us on your more leisurely outings.


Michael Ferreri | vere sandal company, USA | veresandals.com
M: 404 964 7515 | O: 315 789 0400 | F: 800 570 3010

made here. made better.
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Old 03-17-2011   #46
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Indian Hills, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,448
For what it's worth, my first pair of Chacos from 2002 is still going strong. Two other pairs that i've purchased since then have delaminated, suffered broken straps, etc. Something in their production changed a few years ago and they are no longer worth the premium to me. 'bout the same longevity of a pair of Chuck T's these days.
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Old 03-17-2011   #47
Kayak/SUP Instructor
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The High Ground, Colorado
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,325
Originally Posted by Fallingup View Post
Maybe crocs will come up with a boating sandel with a Z-strap...they are made in colorado right??
Wait...weren't Crocs invented by the same guy who brought us the fish net t-shirts, leg warmers, and white sunglasses for dudes?

I thought Crocs were made in a North Korean factory? Maybe they just look like it.
"Let us cross the river to the other side and rest beneath the shade of the trees." ~ Last words of Thomas Jonathan ''Stonewall' Jackson
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Old 03-17-2011   #48
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Donkey Town, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 144
Actually crocs were invented by a youngster for his business class, and started out here in America. Kid got filthy rich as in worth over 100 million and then over dosed and died. I'm sure they have been made in china for a long time now. Wouldn't look to see them design any sort of river shoe ever. What about the old school teva, are they "American"?
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Old 03-17-2011   #49
north little rock, Arkansas
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 341
[QUOTE=Theophilus;217129]Wait...weren't Crocs invented by the same guy who brought us the fish net t-shirts, leg warmers, and white sunglasses for dudes?

No, you're thinking of Mugatu, and it was the keyboard tie. Come on dude.
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Old 03-17-2011   #50
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Summit County, and Idaho
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 261
Actually, Crocs were invented by a mother who was tired of her childrens stinky shoes and she came up with the antimicrobrial material that crocs were made of. She lives in Boulder and my sister used to be her nanny.

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