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Old 03-16-2011   #31
lhowemt's Avatar
at my house, Montana
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Originally Posted by wildh2onriver View Post
Sorry if my comment(s) offended you, maybe I touched a raw nerve somehow? Giving me shit only propagates MOTSS.
Nah, didn't offend me, thanks. Just fired me up I guess. Raw nerve, for sure. I'm a bit tired of people telling us up here that we should just accept the Exxon Mega Load-Hell because we all burn oil. Your comment rung the same as that for me, didn't mean to misread.

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Old 03-16-2011   #32
wildh2onriver's Avatar
irvine, California
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Originally Posted by Marco Esquandolis View Post
I love how 99% of the things we buy, all of our consumer goods, a huge portion of our food, our fuel, everything in life- it comes from overseas. But try to move production for little sandal company to China! Try taking the made in China label out of parts of your life besides your hobby/past-time, I want to see you try. Why is it so much more noble to have a raft that was made in the USA than a car? Was that PVC material that Sotar so poorly welded together actually made in the USA? I kind of doubt it. I bet DuPont makes that shit somewhere with an affluent pipe directly into the ocean. Did all those fancy aluminum tubes actually get made in the US, or are they made in USA because some guy at NRS cut them and drilled some holes in them- I'd bet on the latter. What a bunch of ironic and whiney little brats.
You have some really good points Marco, though one of your analogies used an incorrect example of globalization. What's more, you used it on a whitewater sports forum specifying products used and made much differently than your example. Other than the Sotar reference, good job.

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Old 03-16-2011   #33
Jenks, Oklahoma
Join Date: Oct 2004
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ABC news a few weeks ago took a standard family living in Dallas TX and took everything out of their house not made in the USA.

I was bare to the walls.

Then they went back to refurnish it with stuff made in America. took a while, lots of telephone calls but they finally did it. Put the house back together and looked better than before and the total cost was actually a bit cheaper altho it took a lot of work to track down the stuff. I think there was one item maybe it was a coffee maker they could not find made in USA, but they did find one totally assembled in the US.

They also looked at the curio shop in Congress and every US flag and souvenir was made in China or off shore.

Bottom line: It is real easy to go to WalMart, Target or what ever and pick up a cheap deal that works well for the near future. But with a bit of work, we could find a lot of made in US items to spend our money on. Long term, could make a real difference. If every one did a few dollars more each year on US products, big difference.

Same for food. I spent a lot of time boating down in Central and South America. Big deal down there was to be sure food was washed with some cleaner stuff before us gringos ate it. Now, take a look on the side of the produce we buy in the market. My bet is you would be very surprised that most of it comes from Mexico, Costa Rica, Ecuador etc etc. And, my bet is a lot of us never wash off the veggies thinking that is done by the USA regs. Wrong, just washing off veggies in plain water goes a long way to making them safer to eat.
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Old 03-16-2011   #34
Bozeman, Montana
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 62
My first pair of Chacos were made in Colorado. I didn't wear them out, but they were the first generation of "ZX2"'s with the double criss-cross straps. They strangle my big toes. I bought a pair just before they were sold to wolverine, but after they sent them to China. Sad thing is, my Made in China chacos are much more comfortable. Not only do they not strangle my toes, but they also have a more cushioned footbed while still maintaining the support that we all love. My other ones were so hard that they hurt my feet after long hours in them. I'll keep wearing both pairs and keep buying chacos because I love the product.

For the record, your chaco "flips" were probably made in china no matter what year you bought them.
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Old 03-16-2011   #35
Salt Lake City, Utah
Paddling Since: 2008
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American greed fuels this problem. How many of you shop at Wal-Mart? Are you willing to pay more for something made nearby? This is the root of the problem. Everybody trying to squeeze a buck. Many of the outdoor based companies start and mean well, yet fall to the simple and easiest methods to gain profit.

We are all guilty of trying to get the most for the least. Until this attitude stops, we will continue to see this pattern and "development" of business travel to the cheapest countries/areas.

What about Aire making boats in Idaho, yet NRS in Mexico. Why is that?


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Old 03-16-2011   #36
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Simple fact is it's not a lost or getting back type of issue. The US still leads the world in manufacturing (for the time being). What we have done is almost consciously and intentionally outright abandoned certain segments and industries because we can make higher profit margins in other sectors. Clothing and cheap consumer goods being high on the list. We just gave up on places where margins aren't high enough to essentially justify our time or effort. We'd rather make the big and technical stuff instead of toys and shirts.

In niche markets like rafting small manufacturers can still survive (like someone mentioned Sotar or Maravia) because people value the unique product. $100 pair of sandals is a lot to swallow for most. It is the "invisible hand" at work in real time.
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Old 03-16-2011   #37
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New Castle, Colorado
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Ugh! I just saw the "made in China" tag on the Chacos I bought last year. I justified the $100 cost based on good reviews. I guess I should be satisfied if they last two years. My previous NRS and Merrell's cost $50 and barely lasted one year.
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Old 03-16-2011   #38
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Westminster, Colorado
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if ya'll got the time, two movies from the same people....

finished the first and is interesting to watch
+ pUn-JaB +
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Old 03-17-2011   #39
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at my house, Montana
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It's nice to see such thoughtful responses.

Food, holy shit our food is cheap. I quit my regular job a year ago and went out on my own. Because such a business starts slow, I joined some friends in participating in our neighborhood farmers market on Thursday nights. I was blown away, selecting which vegi's from my garden to sell. What were they worth to me, vs keeping and the effort to pick, wash, organize, and transport? Sitting at the market was a social activity for me, I found the preparation effort a killer. That even ignores the gardening effort, which I wrote off to my normal gardening activities anyways. I found I could hardly part with a head of lettuce for $2, or a bunch of carrots for the same amount. Let alone Brussel Sprouts or peas! I can't believe our food is so cheap, and when our currency collapses and/or is no longer the world reserve currency, it's going to be hard to buy food. The inevitable increase in oil costs is going to be a major factor. Look at what is happening to food prices around the world right now, and it's only going to get worse as foreign nations quit buying US debt.

Boat now, while you still can afford it! With that, I'm going to drive 500 miles today to go boating. I hate the double standard, but I'm as much of an addict as the rest of us.
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Old 03-17-2011   #40
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Summit County, and Idaho
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 261
Lets face it people. Chaco fans like chacos for a few reasons.
1) they are comfortable, they are durable and hold up well for boating
2) they are cool. chicks look hotter in chacos, and so do dudes
3) they are (were) made in Colorado. We LOVE things that are made in colorado because its a cool state. Those who are actually from colorado think this is even cooler.

I think we all know that 90% of stuff is made in China, and we buy it anyway.

So yes... Boat now and be happy that we have boating shoes to talk about. Who knows what it will be like in the future with the way things are going..

Maybe crocs will come up with a boating sandel with a Z-strap...they are made in colorado right??

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