I have gone both ways on a floor for my cat. Right now on my fishing rig I have a sheet of marine grade plywood which is very convenient for setting junk down, dropping stuff, standing up and the like. I have noticed in big water it tends to diminish the performance in terms of hole punching and big waves. For day whitewater trips I have been using an NRS universal frame with footbars and a passenger seat. the passengers always seen wary of the lack of a floor. I have to admit I am too.
So what are my options? diamond plate won't help the performance any more than plywood. Trampolie floors seem like they would catch as much water as wood and metal. I have seen some plastic crate rigs but I am guessing they dimish the performance significantly too.
I am thinking about rigging some type of wire mesh. Something small enough that it isn't an entrapment hazard, something beefy enough to stand on and something thin enough to let the water through and not hurt performance. somethng like fine chain link fencing????
The polymax looks good, and I have seen some guys using trampoline floors on Class V and while not as water-permeable as nothing, it seems to work well. They look to be Jan's or Ray's work and when properly lashed to reduce entrapment probability and adjusted to the correct height(as high as you can get them) they seem better than going down the hatch. Probably stronger than polymax and I have heard Ray at TRS makes bomber gear.
Just go without a floor. You'll slice through everything like a hot knife through butter. You aren't going to fall through (unless you are getting worked and take advantage of "cage swimming"), but you might drop some very valuable licorice. Another good reason, esp if you are stepping it up in difficulty, is if you swim/flip you have that wonderful open are to come up through. I can do a pressup from my cage and throw my butt into my seat in less than a second, licketly split.
good points. add to that: at lower flows you can also jump down in-between the tubes and pull/push off when you get stuck (talking Salt River low water trips, etc.).
i like my mesh floor. soesn't seem to be too grabby when punching a hole, empties very fast, at least. i have an NRS floor right now, simply because it was the right size for my universal frame and was relatively affordable compared to a custom order. when it dies (this will be its 4th season) i will have jan make me a custom one that will likely last the life of the boat.
i have also had JPW make me a custom floor in the past for a fifferent boat, and i can't say enough about the product or their customer service.
i get the argument for a floorless set up, but unless you are in the gnar it just seems like a good way to lose gear.
agreed. attatched photo of floor custom built by jan at SNS, approx 3' x 6', secured and adjustable by cam buckles all the way around, tight as a drum, 130 bucks.
For a serious boater, heavy duty class IV and V, I would have to say no floor. Especially since I see a pretty gnarly entrapment hazard in the picture above, which happens to be very near that left foot. Not saying you couldn't cut your way out, but would you want to try...
For a serious boater, heavy duty class IV and V, I would have to say no floor. Especially since I see a pretty gnarly entrapment hazard in the picture above, which happens to be very near that left foot. Not saying you couldn't cut your way out, but would you want to try...
point taken. that wasn't a good photo to post for this. my foot was over there to photo the floor. when on the multi days that area is covered by dry bags either side of my feet strapped to the frame. it is also pretty easy to adjust those gaps out, but you do need to have a floor that is a reasonable fit to start with.
I've built a small wooden platform that gives me just enough ledge when I need to stand and survey the river. Most of my floor is open. Make sure anything you might drop has a floatie
I use aluminum angle or channel scalloped at the ends to fit over the frame bars and pop-riveted to the Poly-Max.
Here's a copy of a post on the subject from a while ago:
Cat floor tricks
Having decided the wood-framed floor I built several years ago for this boat was shaky, I made a new one of PolyMax grid. I added a center support and 2 SpeedRail tee-E joints (lighter than the wood frame with aluminum channel and bar reinforcement). Since PolyMax comes in 24" x 48" panels and the distance between the cat tubes is 30", it couldn't be symmetrical in both directions. So I trimmed the length of two pieces and cable-tied them together. (I could've rebuilt the frame to 48" inside width, but I like a narrow rig).
The wide center rib (on the right side) looks sketchy, but so what. The main fasteners holding it to the frame are stainless hoseclamps. The leading edge of the floor (at bottom) has a piece of aluminum channel cable-tied over the edge of the grid, then covered with foam pipe insulation and more cable ties.
Since hoseclamps have sharp edges, I used some 1/2" vinyl tubing that slides snugly over the clamp band. This is the top view.
This is the underside. Note that the sharp end of the clamp band slips inside the end of the vinyl tubing. I cut off some of the bands with tin snips, nipped the corners, and filed off the sharp edges.
This shows two 4 ft. straps woven through the grid and around the bars. Wet the straps and crank it. Otherwise they'll get sloppy. I put the straps where my feet go when I stand up to scout. (It flexes, but not anything like those mesh trampoline floors).
Here's a copy of another post on a small cat frame with pop-riveted aluminum stiffeners on the floor. Sturdier than it looks (I weigh 220 or so).
Superlight Cat Frame
Got this put together enough for a look. It goes with 16-inch Jack's Cutthroat cat tubes and is intended for runs where there's a long or steep carry on the put-in or take out.
Basic specs: 3/4"IPS/1.05" OD steel tubing (NOTE: I ended up using sched 80 aluminum pipe for the two siderails), SpeedRail fittings, PolyMax kennel flooring, homemade oarstands w/Sawyer Mini-Cobra locks, homebuilt seat platform and a cheap fishing seat, plus various scraps I had around. The pipe really flexes under body weight, so I dowelled the seat crossbars full length and added a box under the front seatbar.
The rear view— attaching the footbar to the drops 'boxes' the frame. Wherever a set screw might touch a cat tube, I add a couple turns of Vet-Wrap (what they use on racehorses).
Bottom view— the floor is a half-panel of PolyMax grid with aluminum angle pop-riveted along the front and cable-tied at the rear, attached to the frame with hoseclamps sheathed in plastic tubing.
The footbar is a scrap of fiberglass rake handle (larger diameter for comfort) covered with 3M skidstop. There's 4" of steel tubing epoxied and pop-riveted in the ends (to match the SpeedRail fittings) and filled with 1' dowel.
Okay— before you look at the next pic, guess the weight—
46.5 lbs. (the pointer goes around the dial twice, i.e. 30 + 16.5). I wish in my wildest dreams it was only 16.5 lbs.
Here's the finished boat:
Tubes are Jack's Cutthroat (12.5' x 16") with 4 dees per side. The oars are Gull 7-1/2 footers.
i recently located a company at gratingpacific.com. look at the fiberglass reinforced grating. it is an inch thick and will not sag like polymax. it has 1in and a 1/4 squares. they will cut to fit and seal the ends. they also have two non-slip versions. if you like what you see call mark at 1-800-942-4041. they also have many colors.
Interesting stuff. Most of it is too heavy (e.g. 90 lbs for a 4' x 8' piece) but there are a couple sorts that might work for cat floors. I'm guessing it's expensive.
Small hard floors like a 10" x 32" wide shed water fast and give you a nice place to stand and stretch out your legs. Cats can usually accomodate 1 or two of these. A wave over a cat can easily generate 50 lbs/ft^2 of overturning force on a small surface; a large surface being substantally more.
I have an NRS mesh floor, but don't like it that much. Too stretchy to stand on, and causes flex on the lower rails unless you add their spreader bars. I had NRS make a small floor board for me. Same material as their siderail racks. I've kept the mesh floor underneath to prevent a foot problem. Floor board secures with straps or heavy duty cable ties, so I can move it around to where I need it depending on how I have the frame set-up. Still a work in progress. I used to have a 4 Corners rower module with the metal mesh scout bars. They were great. Plenty wide for standing, drained well, and open center hatch.
KJ
KJ, what do you mean by foot problem, are you worried about entrapment? I've seen a few cats use small floors like that, and then leave the rest open. A nice compromise between no floor (for performance) and wanting something to stand on. It may even be enough space to crawl up into your cage if you're not getting pummeled. Just wanted to pass on this unrequested idea.
I'll attach a couple more pics to explain the foot worry thing. If I slid the floor forward more, I didn't like the position of my feet on the footbar. I like the ball of my foot on the bar for leverage with heel dropped down. Couldn't get that position with the floor forward. I have my dry box in front of me. So there isn't any room to crawl thru.
My rafting partner was concerned about my foot slipping through that space, so I left the mesh floor underneath to make him less worried. He worried all the time about my old scout bar/ open hatch frame. He thought that one day I'd put my foot thru to push off a rock or sand bar, and the boat would move and I'd break a leg. The only time I almost broke a leg is when we landed at Barth Hot springs on the Main Salmon, and I was walking my boat forward a little with a foot thru, and a "helpful" person grabbed my tubes without asking and gave them a big tug. He got a stern lecture from me about never touching someones boat unless they ask you to. He was a newbie youngster with a little too much unfocused energy. Luckily I was used to picking up my foot fast with that frame, so no damage was done.
KJ
Cataraftgirl, if you didn't have the mesh floor underneath, your other floor would easily be a body entrapment problem in a major thrashing, not to mention "leg problem". I would personaly lose both floors and make some scout pads like what your frame is sitting on the lawn. Floors give me chills!
I did like the scout bars on my old frame. They were relatively wide for standing on, but I could still fit thru the opening.....well mostly..... probably could have dislocated a shoulder going through in a thrashing. My rafting partner hated that frame. He worried constantly about me breaking a leg every time I'd drop down to push off. He has 20 years of rafting experience, so I didn't want to discount his worry totally.
I have my dry box in the bay in front of my footbar, so there isn't that much space between the floor board and the dry box. Certainly enough for a foot or leg. I would love to figure out a way to turn 2 of my NRS side rail racks into scout platforms, but attaching them is a problem on an NRS frame. The NRS spreader bars are a PITA to put on. Adding two small cross bars would mean LoPros poking into the tubes.
I've come to like having a sturdy floor to stand on for scouting, and for loading my boat. I'm still working on the best set-up. I mostly run class III - IV multi-day trips ( Main & Middle Fork Salmon, Deso, San Juan).
KJ
try 3/4 plywood with rhino liner.....side rails too
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