A few years ago I went on a weeklong Thanksgiving trip down the lower San Juan. One of the members in our group brought along a standard pop-up type canopy set-up and used tarps to create walls for the structure. Complete with with a collapsable wood-stove, it kept us all toasty each night with temps dropping down to the teens.
I am looking to do a similar thing for this winter's season. I want to purchase a pop-up canopy unit, about 10x 10 with sidewalls to make it warm and enclosed...an ideal place for kitchen, chairs, and even a firepan part of the way in to be warm, dry and protected from the wind on a winter trip with uncertain weather conditions.
Do any of you Buzzards out there have any experience with a set-up like this? Is there a type of canopy that holds up better than the rest? I am looking for something lower in weight and cost but stable enough to hold up to conditions that may be present on a winter river. Any other types of rigs that would provide similar protection with-out a full canopy with side-walls. Any help or suggestions would be great. Thanks.
I would check Cabelas or similar for an outfitter tent. I'm not sure if you'll find one that's much cheaper than a pop-up canopy, but it will likely be lighter and some come with a chimney opening for the stove.
I looked all over those sites, cabellas, gander mountain, bass pro, etc.) but didn't find anything that really fit my bill. I think I have decided on a semi-cheap canopy with side-walls and will jsut hope it holds up to the river. We are looking at it for a commonroom not just for sleeping purposes and frankly those outfitter tents are too cumbersome and expensive...
Check out cabelas dot com as they have a lot of them and sometimes on sale. overstock dot com also has a lot of the cheaper ones on sale I recommend you spend extra and get at least a semi commercial unit. The serious commercial units are very hi dollar.
I do not have one of these units, but camp with a lot of folks who do. the snap in side curtains are the way to go as without them rain will easily blow thru. For car camping these units are very nice - most do fold up nicely but are bulky and heavy.
I have seen the el cheapo units work and the more expensive commercial grade ones work as well.
My take for a GC trip would be to buy a commercial grade and test it out before taking it on the trip. The weak points are the frame setup and the quality of the canvas. The el cheapo canvas is usually pretty thin and tears easy which could be bad on the GC. Same for the el cheapo frames rivets will pop out and the complicated series of braces gets bent or jammed.
These things are heavy. But do a awesome job on sand beaches.
Be sure to stake them down well as they lift up and fly away easily. I have seen some of the newer heavy duty models with a sort of relief cap on top to reduce wind blow aways. However, some good sand stakes would be critical in any sort of wind.
On cost I have seen el cheapo units on overstock dot com around a hundred bucks but for the GC I would expect hundreds of dollars more and it would be worth it for the quality and durability.
I have my Moss outfitter tarp for kitchen use and it works great but takes a lot of stakes. I also have a Moss parawing which goes up fast with four stakes - just not as big. This is great for lunch stops. These two tarps have served well on a lot of trips and the weight factor is much less than the frame canopy dealies. This is not to take away from the situations where the canopy units especially with side walls are the way to go.
Walmart has one that you can get side walls for $30.00 and the pop up is @$100.00
The first one i got got mangled by the hurricane sustainted winds at radium and the fact that some peolple in the group thought it would be a good idea to hang the large colapisable wash buckets from the cross scisscors that make the outside square combine that with wind and it broke the arms. I did get another one with the walls and some big old plastic beverage buckets to do the washing in so I don't have to deal with the old wash buckets that could'nt hack standing up. Be sure to get the 10" long nail stakes for keeping the legs on the ground also
I do not have a collapsable stove, but a friend of mine had one we used 3 or 4 years back on a Thanksgiving trip...it had a whole chimney unit that we set up outside of the wall. We basically used 3 of the walls fully and 1 wall partially to allow the chimney its room. When the nights were down into the teens or single digits we had it nice and toasty in the "blue room" as it was called.
My set-up wont be as elaborate, as I dont have the stove, i am just going to plan on positioning my firepan right on the leeward side edge of the unit with 3 of the 4 walls closed down...
One of the 10x10 popups should hold up okay. They're not prohibitively expensive, so even replacing one every other year wouldn't be a big deal. You can buy sidewall kits that are brand specific, and I would think they'd hold up longer than the canopy and frame. I'd be a little concerned about using a fire pan close enough to provide warmth inside the canopy though. Your call of course, but one of those buddy heaters that runs off a big propane bottle should keep your "room" comfy.
I just got one of those 10 x10's at the Evil Empire (Mal-Wart), and it is a pretty good unit. It packs small (much smaller than others of comparable size) and seems pretty beefy. I'd make sure to bring extra hardware. It also has some small vents in the top, they won't do anything in big wind but at least let a little through so it's not as susceptible or shaky with breezes. I aquasealed the upper seams also, one I saw dripped pretty easily and mine is for Lochsa deluge-rain season. I think it was $99.
There are also nylon teepee's you can buy, with collapsible stoves in them, flue hole included. They are reallly sweet, but don't breathe so you have to manage a bit of ventilation to let things dry out. Lots of space, but not as much as the awning, but smaller packing overall if you compare it to an awning with tarps.
here's my two cents worth from a heating and cooling pro.
don't go killing yourself with carbon monoxide poisoning.
it is pretty sneeky stuff. can's see it, smell it or taste it.
it will give you some pretty nasty headaches too.
we have a "party tent" that we have used on march grand trips and winter camping.
we use the larger 'chickie pails' for dish washing.
we would fill the buckets with some large rocks and top one off with water.
then boil one of them for a bit on the stove.
pour the water from the hot bucket into the other bucket (filled with large rocks too) and start that one to boil.
bring the steaming bucket of rocks in the enclosure and enjoy nice steamy heat.
when it cools down, the other bucket was warm by then and repeat,
sometimes its nice to put one of the rocks in your lap (of course after it has cooled a bit).
yes it's a bit labor (and fuel) intensive but with short days and longer nights, but what else do you have to do besides drinking and telling lies.
here's my two cents worth from a heating and cooling pro.
don't go killing yourself with carbon monoxide poisoning.
it is pretty sneeky stuff. can's see it, smell it or taste it.
it will give you some pretty nasty headaches too.
we have a "party tent" that we have used on march grand trips and winter camping.
we use the larger 'chickie pails' for dish washing.
we would fill the buckets with some large rocks and top one off with water.
then boil one of them for a bit on the stove.
pour the water from the hot bucket into the other bucket (filled with large rocks too) and start that one to boil.
bring the steaming bucket of rocks in the enclosure and enjoy nice steamy heat.
when it cools down, the other bucket was warm by then and repeat,
sometimes its nice to put one of the rocks in your lap (of course after it has cooled a bit).
yes it's a bit labor (and fuel) intensive but with short days and longer nights, but what else do you have to do besides drinking and telling lies.
Ok, I am sold on the Tipi idea. But it is a chunk of change. Anybody ever use one of these? How do they hold up? Think it would be doable to have a Native size fire in one without it getting too smokey?
I have used conventional teepee's and the inner liner helps with ventilation and drafts. They are the best shelters in my opinion but to big and bulky for the river...this product on the other hand is just what you need, light, 1 pole and easy to set up. I have never used one but I would think that a small wood stove would be the way to go as a open fire needs good ventilation and wind direction or the smoke does not want to leave.
You usually get what you pay for and I personally do not mind shelling out for a GOOD bad weather shelter....I am going to look into buying one of these I think myself...good luck
Tipi tents are a sheepherder tradition, but they lack decent living space. The stand-up area is close to the stove and the rest of the space is pretty confined for adults. Nylon or any other synthetic fabric is a bad combination with a stove: you'll get zillions of pinholes in the roof from cinders, and a scary meltdown is not uncommon.
If you want a heating stove, get a canvas tent.
Having lived for extended periods in various tents with box stoves, my favorite is the Kirkham's Springbar design.
These tents are used a lot by backcountry and river outfitters, which is how I got to know them. I've got an 8 x 10' model with standup room (I'm 6'4") for the entire floor area.
The back of the tent has a full-width screened window. Mine has a pitchout flap over the door. I had the floor fitted with a zipper, so the stove can sit on the ground, and a fireproof stovepipe panel sewn into the roof. The canvas is rather light and the size and weight of the tent compares favorably with a bundle of canopy and sidepanels.
They're extremely livable, with big, tough zippers, bug netting, windows for ventilation, and pitch-out awnings for nasty weather. They also have modular options for larger groups.
The prices haven't increased all that much since I bought mine, many years ago. Great value for the money.
The benefit of the tipi is that you don't have nearly the weight and volume to pack as a wall tent. Just one collapsible center pole. Other than that I agree a wall tent is superior.
The tipi I am familiar with had a packable/collapsible stove. No pinhole risks at least if it was used correctly. It had an amazing amount of room, even with gear hanging from a perimeter line at about 5' there was still room for people around the stove without being too close. There was a lot of condensation with all that gear drying though (non-breathable nylon fabric), but if you don't really care if the tipi fabric is went, or can figure out some ventilation control, it's fine.
I wouldn't recommend an open fire in a tipi for so many reasons. Especially considering most river trips, alcohol/whatever and CO poisoning just seems a bit too risky.
We hung out in one at a festival this summer and they are pretty bad ass. The hold up to weather pretty good. Friends of ours that have one say it is THE SHELTER for Burning Man. Never been to burning man but from what I hear they hold up to the sand and wind pretty well. Not the smallest, lightest, most packable thing but pretty cool nonetheless.
I have an 8 man with the packable wood stove. This is my go to tent for overnighters between September & June. The stove and tipi are small enough and light enough that I also bring them along on warm weather trips as a back up in case the weather turns. The tent(approx 8 lbs) and stove(approx. 7 lbs?) are light enough that they can be packed into the backcountry by one person.
Setup of the tipi is simple, basically stake down the perimeter and raise the center pole, although with something like 18 stake out points around the perimeter it takes longer to set up than a tent. The stove and chimney break down into an astonishing small and lightweight package. The stove and chimney take 15-30 minutes to set up, this really is the only down side to having such a compact package. I typically set up the stove only if I will be camped in one spot for more than one night or if it's really cold or shitty.
8 people could sleep in this thing but it wouldn't be pretty. With cots, myself, the wife, two dogs, firewood and clothes we're starting to run out of space. There's quite a bit more space without the cots but I can't see it being comfortable sleeping more than 4 or 5 people.
I have weathered some gnarly high elevation storms in this thing and it has been unaffected while any wall tents in the area were flattened. When you really get it going, the little stove glows red like it is melting and 4' flames shoot out the top the chimney like a jet engine. (The manufacturer claims that this is safe). I've seen around 10 pinholes in the fabric from hot ashes in the last 4 years. I just fill them in with the same silicon sealant used to seal the seams. A good tip is to make sure that you set up the tent so that the chimney hole is on the downwind side. I've been comfortable in short sleeves while it's 0 degrees and blowing outside.
The laundry line that runs around the inside at about 5' really is a great feature. You can dry your clothes/gear in a matter of minutes when the stove is going.
The only other down side aside from the setup time is the condensation that forms on the interior. The condensation is tolerable in Montana but I can see this being a bigger issue in other parts of the country. The condensation is only really an issue during and following a rain storm or if you set up on wet ground. I woke up in the middle of the night camping last month and I swore it was raining in the tipi. It after turning on my headlamp and looking around I realized that the hail that was coming down outside was bouncing the condensation off the tipi walls creating a rain storm inside. Everything got a little wet but nothing that the wood stove wouldn't dry out in 30 minutes.
As for functionality on river trips, I would consider getting longer stakes more suitable for sand if floating a river with sand beach camps. This could be expensive considering the number of stakes. I don't do many overnight river trips when the temp is below freezing so for the most part the stove stays in the raft just in case. It is nice to have it there though because it could turn a hypothermic epic into a good time. As long as the tipi is set up you will be warm and you will be able to dry out all of your clothing.
My favorite thing about this setup is waking up on a cold morning, rolling over stuffing a fire starter and some wood into the stove and going back to sleep. When you wake up next it is warm and cozy in the tipi and you can begin your day in comfort.
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