Best Value Paddle? (ie Talk me out of a Werner) - Page 2 - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 09-13-2016   #11
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 206
Another for AT paddles and their pistol grip. I just feel like it's more solid and sturdy.

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Old 09-13-2016   #12
 
Haliburton, Ontario
Paddling Since: 1990
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 2
Steve Horvath, the guy that started Core and Waterstick did not found H2O. He was a hired designer. The parent company of H2O was and still is Dynaplas Ltd. Great paddles with lots of design input from Billy Harris.
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Old 09-13-2016   #13
 
San Jose, CA, California
Paddling Since: 1998
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 453
Set a craigslist alert for Warner paddles and wait two months. I picked up one (the player 197cm) for my GF for $125 last January.

Or buy new now. I am with KSC on this the powerhouse has worked great for me for years I am going to stay with Warner and the Powerhouse specifically.
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Old 09-14-2016   #14
 
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185 lb. waste of space, Keeping Glenwood Springs real
Paddling Since: 1864
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Posts: 919
197 Powerhouse. Nothing is better. Werner foam cores break, AT paddles are a joke and I wouldn't trust them to teach someone how to roll in a pool.

If I don't swim and lose my Powerhouse than it will last for almost eternity cause I never hit any rocks with my boat or paddle so it never wears down.

Seriously, I have a brand new Powerhouse that hangs in my garage because I bought 3 on pro deal about 8 years ago, I used one for about 6 years then swam on BS, the second is in use for the past two years with no problems. Knock on wood but I hope to never touch that third paddle.

Did I mention AT sucks?
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Old 09-14-2016   #15
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by yourrealdad View Post
197 Powerhouse. Nothing is better. Werner foam cores break, AT paddles are a joke and I wouldn't trust them to teach someone how to roll in a pool.

If I don't swim and lose my Powerhouse than it will last for almost eternity cause I never hit any rocks with my boat or paddle so it never wears down.

Seriously, I have a brand new Powerhouse that hangs in my garage because I bought 3 on pro deal about 8 years ago, I used one for about 6 years then swam on BS, the second is in use for the past two years with no problems. Knock on wood but I hope to never touch that third paddle.

Did I mention AT sucks?
Awwww...., are you OK!? You got your hydroskin panties in a bunch over a paddle!?

Since you never hit rocks with your boat or paddle you must be one of them 'playboaters' so it doesn't sound like durability is even an issue for you anyway.

I think one of the reason's there are so many Werner's out there is that, as people have mentioned above they are constantly available at a discount if your willing to wait. Wait, you got 3 on pro deal... right?

I have been using my AT2 for almost 10 years as my go to paddle with over 6 grand trips and beating down the Roaring Fork(I do hit rocks!) and it is still going strong!

It's kinda like Ford or Chevy, it's all personal preference and you will always be loyal to one. Just don't drive a compact!
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Old 09-14-2016   #16
 
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185 lb. waste of space, Keeping Glenwood Springs real
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkashzg View Post
Awwww...., are you OK!? You got your hydroskin panties in a bunch over a paddle!?

Since you never hit rocks with your boat or paddle you must be one of them 'playboaters' so it doesn't sound like durability is even an issue for you anyway.

I think one of the reason's there are so many Werner's out there is that, as people have mentioned above they are constantly available at a discount if your willing to wait. Wait, you got 3 on pro deal... right?

I have been using my AT2 for almost 10 years as my go to paddle with over 6 grand trips and beating down the Roaring Fork(I do hit rocks!) and it is still going strong!

It's kinda like Ford or Chevy, it's all personal preference and you will always be loyal to one. Just don't drive a compact!
What is this playboating you speak of?

Powerhouse is a creeking paddle, made for creeks and zee gnar. AT2 are made for the Grand Canyon and the Roaring Fork, where unless you are running the Difficult Camp section is easy to not hit rocks, so I don't know how you are doing it.
Maybe you should try a compact, you won't run into as much as you do with your Silverado and require a bailout. Remind me to tell you to pull yourself up by your bootstraps when I see you on the Fork with a busted AT and I have a nice Powerhouse breakdown as I float on by.
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Old 09-14-2016   #17
 
Durango, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1996
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 808
I can understand that some people have a personal preference for the AT grip, but there is no contest on strength. 95% of creek boaters use a Werner, and I have still seen way more ATs break. In fact the last one I saw on a creek run was in two pieces.

To the OP- you should be able to find a fiberglass Werner at 20-30% off retail at an end-of-season sale. If that is too expensive for you, then you can't afford to kayak.
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Old 09-14-2016   #18
huckh2o
 
Confluence, Pennsylvania
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 19
A lot of hate on the AT brand?

I've used most of the paddles out there and can tell you they all break.

One of my first paddles was an Aquabound with white blades. I had it from the time i was 14 to the time I was 28... not bad for a cheapy... a lot of the time it was a backup or a backup for a backup but... still i was used a lot and lasted a long time. I dropped it in an eddy and it sank on red creek in WV. I must not have realized it was partially full of water.

AT's were my go to paddle for a long time. I loved the AT2 SL. I loved that thing. The AT2 SL is AT's most flexible paddle and that makes it the most durable. let me explain...

A stiffer paddle may snap easier because the stress event is sudden and sharp resulting in a very high amount of energy spread out over a short period of time. picture a tall abrupt spike on a graph. A more flexible paddle spreads that impact over more time; taking the same amount of energy from impact and distributing it across a longer period of time resulting in a less intense stress at the moment of maximum deflection. picture a short curve on a graph instead of the spike

That said I recently got a werner odachi. That shaft is really stiff and feels fragile... as does the rest of the paddle. it's a great, powerful design, but not cheap.

A good paddler can use any paddle and make it work for them. It really comes down to how much you want to spend and what feels better to you. I'd demo as many paddles as you can in the price range until you find one that suits your paddling style the best.

the werner paddles with fiberglass shafts and fiberglass blades seem to be the most popular budget whitewater paddle out there... but I think ATs deserve a little more credit than what they're given here. My choice of paddle right now is a werner but AT does make some great paddles as well.

Another option for budget paddle manufacturer is Accent. They make some good designs that paddle well. I can't speak on their durability as I don't have any long term ownership experience personally.
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Old 09-14-2016   #19
 
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Riverdale, Utah
Paddling Since: 1977
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 228
Oh its the biannual "which paddle' thread :-)

I have an ATX that is a couple decades old; have not managed to break it, although I have done some maintenance on the blades. I like the softer flex, and the huge blades (748cm2).
I also have an AT Eddy that gets a lot of use (primary loaner), and a Superlight. I have not broken an AT paddle (a couple thousand paddling days on those 3; plenty of rocks around here).
I did break an H20, and they would not warranty it (no rock hit, broke while rolling in a hole).
The AT Geronimo (blade size 725cm2) looks a lot like the Werner Powerhouse (blade size 720 cm2); same price for straight shaft, 10 bucks less for bent shaft. If anyone has unbiased durability data on these two (like warranty request rates for both models from a large shop), that would be very interesting.
AT is promoting the Hercules (blade size 700cm2) as their "most versatile" paddle, its the middle blade size in their Advanced Series; Geronimo being the largest, Samaurai the smallest (675cm2). Same price as Geronimo and Powerhouse.
The Eddy (Elite Series, 710cm2) is also the same price; only in bent shaft; they call it more of a playboaters paddle for some reason.
I am not as familiar with Werner; looks like a nice website with plenty of info tho. So there is a lot in that "Advanced but not full carbon" price range to choose from ($250/straight shaft, $335-345/bent shaft).

Going back to the upper price ranges, the Werner ODACHI looks very interesting; very large blades (735 cm2), and designed like the slalom race paddles you see the Europeans using. Only 30 oz straight, 35.5oz bent? That is crazy light. BTW I don't think the AT website has accurate weights; they say 40oz for the Superlight (this must be lighter), and the Eddy, glass Geronimo, glass Hercules, etc.

If you like straight shafts, and stiffer flex, most go with Werner.
If you like ergonomic shafts, and/or softer flex, check out AT or a good wood paddle maker.
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Old 09-15-2016   #20
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 130
Where can you still buy Lightnings? I've had a couple that lasted forever. Probably the closest to a Werner.
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