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Old 05-31-2012   #1
up north, Idaho
Paddling Since: 2008
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 9
Any one paddle a SCUD?

I have been lurking for a while and though i would chime in and get some opinions. I could have also called this thread SCUD vs. Hero vs. Ammo

What I want: a creeky/playful boat more so than a river/play type. Already have a Habitat for stuff that's hard for me. Not so interested in boats like the fun or fuse. I want a boat to take down stuff I am to skerd to paddle in a playboat, but can still perhaps surf a bit and wave wheel. Also boofing is a factor. Type of runs I am talking about will vary from high water (like 14k +) Lochsa and Kootani River (and not just stooper wave, actually the canyon run at 15k+), to hike in IV+/V- that I am already comfortable with and want to spice up, or runs with a few boofs and play spots, but with crux rapids I would walk around if I was in a play boat. I am 190lb and somewhere just under 6'. looking at either a SCUD, regular size hero (anyone out there my size paddle this one??) or the larger size ammo. Only one of the three I have paddled, or really have access to is the Hero so comparisons to that would be sweet... and I have only paddled the super hero, which i liked, but would want something smaller for my intended use.

Thanks for reading my ramble, and any knowledge you may be able to drop.


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Old 06-01-2012   #2
Cpt. No Scout
idahofloater's Avatar
In a Van, Down By the River
Paddling Since: 91
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 517
I boated a Scud on the lochsa. Didn't like it. I felt like it pushed be around and all I was doing was making correction stroks. I think it would be nice for park and play or small creeks. Others will have different opinions. Never boated an Ammo. I have a Hero and Its nice on the lochsa but it too gets shoved around a bit. Plays nice. I ran a stomper last week and guess what. As of wednessday, I have a new stomper.

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Old 06-01-2012   #3
Charlotte, North Carolina
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 4

I'm not familiar with the runs you are asking about but I do know about the SCUD. It is a very playful hull design and has edges that mimic our playboat designs. With that in mind it is going to surf and carve very well. The boat is a good bit longer than our freestyle boats and that extra length is what you'll be relying on to get you through the bigger water with beefy holes and such. The bow rocker on the SCUD is pretty aggressive and it is a really easy design to boof.

At 190lbs the boat will float you just fine. I know a few folks in the 220-230 range that float it comfortably.

That's my two cents, keep in mind I do work for Bliss-Stick though If you have any other questions about anything feel free to call or email us, 423.619.4680 or
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Old 06-02-2012   #4
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The Bitterroot, Montana
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 451
I saw a stomper brake after one day on the water.
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Old 11-12-2012   #5
Montagnola, Ticino, Switzerland
Paddling Since: 1998
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3
I own a scud

The Scud is a very unique boat. If you want to run tight, steep, technical creeks... then this boat is exceptional. If you want to run big water or have a reliable river runner, this really isn't your boat.

I paddled a larger volume creek boat in the North East US for 10+ years and then moved to Switzerland. Compared the the NE, Switzerland is much more technical and MUCH steeper. 'Rope Only' access is not unusual and sharp, narrow, blind drops are fairly common. For that style of paddling, the Scud does great. It is fast for a small boat and responds predictably. It punches and tracks fairly while still allowing you to make a quick direction change and put power into your new course confidently. It rolls fairly easily... not as easily as a non-planing hull, but easier than a high walled playboat. It lands drops gently and seems to surface fairly well considering its small volume.

On larger volume rivers, the short and cork-like nature of the boat is emphasized. It bobs and wabbles without much glide or grace. The awkwardness that is hidden by a narrow creek becomes very obvious on rivers , and even with the planning hull, the boat surfs like an oil tanker... oh, it catches waves well... just don't expect any slashy moves or blunts... it does straight and sheds water like a champion, but any real playboater will be disappointed.

Storage inside the boat is tight... you can fit a full pin kit and 30m of static line for rope access stuff... but don't expect much else. The boat is outfitted well with rescue bars, etc... The plastic is fabulous... creeking is tough on boats and after a season of use there is nothing more than scrapes on the bottom of the boat... no concerning gouges, no dimpling, no stress marks... for what it is designed for, it is a great little boat.

One additional note, pay attention to the weight and height limits. At 155lbs and 5'8" I wouldn't recommend the boat to anyone much larger than myself. I've read accounts of larger people squeezing into it, but I can't see how it would be comfortable or perform well as a squirt boat.
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Old 11-12-2012   #6
Lakewood, Colorado
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 504
I think you're too heavy for the Hero. I weigh 180 lbs and had the 2nd gen version (2008ish), and felt like I sunk it a bit. It was sluggish and a little difficult to get the weight centered. Swapped it for the newest Super Hero and am much happier. Part of that could be the redesign, but I think most of it was my weight. OTOH, I was looking for a big boat to do what big boats do, not a big boat to occasionally play in.
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Old 11-12-2012   #7
Glenwood Springs, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2004
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 302
My 2 cents: the boats you are considering basically all suck. The entire fuse-hero-ammo-fun genre of boats are effectively the cruiser bikes of their sport, its just no salesmen want to tell you that. They are OK if you paddle a few times a year on III+. If you aren't serious about the sport or have no plans to improve your skills then you'll probably never see their drawbacks. Otherwise they all pretty much do everything crappy.

I boat my Jackson Rock Star on IV+ and its a blast, so I don't feel I need a middle ground boat. Personally I would just sac up and run the playboat on anything that's too easy in the creekboat. Go ahead and wear your full face and elbow pads while in your playboat if the run is borderline. You look like a dork until you style something awesome! Then your friends wish they were in a playboat too.

But if you really want a middle ground boat I'd say this: If you've already got a good playboat and a good creekboat I think you are looking at a Dagger Axiom or LL Remix type boat. Get something that you are on the top end of the weight range, i.e. the dagger axiom 8 instead of 8.5, and it should suit those needs better than what you are considering. You're never going to wave wheel any of the boats you are looking at, sorry, except the scud perhaps. Ultimately you are pissing into the wind trying to accomplish those goals.
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Old 11-12-2012   #8
Skillkilla's Avatar
Arvada, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2009
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 296
the fluid detox sounds like what your lookin for. check it out
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Old 12-27-2012   #9
New Plymouth, New Zealand
Paddling Since: 2010
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 18
My Mothership

I have paddled a SCUD as my only boat for the last two years. I am 6ft 4 and 200lbs so quite big for the boat. HOWEVER.....phenomenal boat!! Being a shorter boat it is great for tight technical and steep runs. It turns fast and carves hard into eddies. I run up to IV+ in it and I have friends who are smaller so use it as their full on creeker running class V. Auto boof, enough said. Very durable plastic by Bliss stick as well an their outfitting is the best on the market in my opinion. The thigh braces are leagues ahead of anyone elses and i feel snug and in full control of the boat. Loops are great in this boat, you just need a fair bit of water to get that big bow down! Demo it, but definitely a top boat

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