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Old 04-28-2009   #11
 
Glenwood Springs, Colorado
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Thanks for the info. Much appreciated.
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Old 04-28-2009   #12
 
Hood River, Oregon
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I would advise that you take a swift water rescue course. Take on from Nick Wigston. He is the man and so are the rest of his instructors. He teaches a really practical course and you will come away feeling comfortable with your skills and equipment. If you need a chart in your kit to figure out what to do you should take a course from him.
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Old 04-28-2009   #13
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xkayaker13 View Post
2 pieces of webbing (6ft, 10ft)
2 4mm prussics
2 pullys
minimum of 3 beaners
(ascendors and belay device if you're in a gorge)

more importantly you need to know how to use what is in there. you should take a swift water rescue class if you're not quite sure how to use this gear in rescue scenarios.
I couldn't agree more. If you're out there fumbling around with gear you don't know how to use properly you're buddy is either dead by the time you figure it out or you are just gonna be in the way.
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Old 04-28-2009   #14
 
Cisco, Utah
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Basics; Rope, Pulleys, Webbing, Prussics, Beaners (Locking Only!!!), A Good Knife

Other things that are nice to have; Figure 8, Pliers, leather gloves, Hershey bars.

Practice until you really don't have to think about how to set up your systems. Then practice a few weeks later. 3:1 is standard, 4:1 is very useful. Set up several different ones, this will teach some principles. understanding the principles will go a lot further than just memorizing how to set up a Z-Drag.

Look at your system and identify the weakest link. Where would it be most likely to fail? How much load can that link handle? Having thought about this a bit ahead of time may help prevent unwanted consequences at show time. You may prepare for specific situations, but they may not be the ones you're presented with.

When that is all down, spend some time with load sharing / self-equalizing anchor systems. {How much load can a d-ring handle...}
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Old 04-28-2009   #15
 
Golden, Colorado
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Also upgrade to a rescue vest if you haven't already.
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Old 04-29-2009   #16
 
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at my house, Montana
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Originally Posted by benpetri View Post
Also upgrade to a rescue vest if you haven't already.
It is recommended to only do so once you've had formal training, which takes us back to the Swiftwater Rescue Tech training. Highly recommended, it's good to learn how little you know (before and after), and how much practice you need. It's better to eat your humble pie in training and practice, than when you are trying to save someone or yourself. Live bait is dangerous, even if you have had training and lots of skills/practice.
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Old 04-29-2009   #17
 
Buena Vista, Colorado
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Random Stuff

Quote:
I would advise that you take a swift water rescue course. Take one from Nick Wigston. He is the man and so are the rest of his instructors. He teaches a really practical course and you will come away feeling comfortable with your skills and equipment. If you need a chart in your kit to figure out what to do you should take a course from him.
I agree completely.

These guys(Kayak Instruction, Swiftwater Rescue, Colorado - Downstream Edge) are doing basic and advanced River Rescue classes at PaddleFest in Buena Vista. John Grace (LVM) is doing and overnight prep. class that may touch on rescue too. I think living in the depths of Gorilla on a cable cam has gotten him pretty dialed in.

You can actually get a pin kit from CKS:
NRS Kayak Pin Kit

and take the class in BV on Memorial Day Weekend:
CKS PaddleFest 09′ Educational Courses

Ska beer in 12oz. cans to revive you and live music afterwords.
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Old 04-29-2009   #18
 
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Durango, Colorado
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I would recomend everyone using prusiks upgrade to the petzl tibloc instead. The tibloc is a light weight piece of metal which is a mechanical prusik that weighs nothing and is much much easier to implement in a rescue situation. Prusiks, although cheap, light and effective are somewhat difficult to set up, as you have to rap them around the rope you are pulling on. The tibloc just slips over the rope and you clip a biner to it and wall ahhh you have a mechanical prusik.

The system I am experimenting with is 2-3 tibloks with a reverso, or ATC guide set up to autolock the follower as the first point of contact. This system automatically holds itself, so if you let go of the rope you don't loose your progress, especially when reseting the prusiks for another pull. It can be loosened, and I think, will be what everyone uses once the river community catches up to fairly recent advances in climbing equipment. It is also just as fast, if not faster to set up.

We like to think all of this will work, but I garuntee if you have to look at a card to set this up while your friend is pinned and drowning, he will drown. Practice this system.

further, a solid anchor is the corner stone of this system and if you can't find and build a natural anchor in little or no time, or if you pick a bad anchor you just made the situation much much worse.

1 more thing. Corey Volt pointed out a very good thing; if you don't keep you pin kit on you, in your vest, it will be virtually useless to you. Mine goes in my rescue vest so if I need it its there, and it fits just fine
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Old 04-29-2009   #19
 
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San Juans, Colorado
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Tiblocs are a great tool, but they are harsh on a rope. I have personally destroyed a sheath(static rope) using a tibloc, have also seen a 20ft+ free fall onto a tibloc with little consequence(dynamic rope). Once you wreck a sheath it bunches up. I wouldn't use a Tibloc for unpinning a large raft. They would work great for a kayak or smaller load.

Reversos are a great aoutolock device, but you loose a lot of mechanical advantage due to friction and its small radius. Most kayakers I know use spectra or similar smaller diameter rope. If using a smaller diameter rope ensure you have the smaller reverso used for skinny rope (7-9mm). They are marketed for ice climbing. Also a good ruleof thumb is to have your prusick be 2-3mm smaller in diameter than rope it is attached to, will prevent slipping and possible shealth damage.

One important thing to consider is how many people will be helping you. If you alone are unpinning a boat you are going to need all the mechanical advantage you can get, a Z drag in theory gives a 3:1 mechanical advantage, in reality using sealed bearing large diameter pulleys you will not get much over 2.5:1, a reverso would probably take this closer to 2:1

Another reason I reccomend carrying 1/2 webbing is that you can make a kleimheist, similar to a prusick. Another nice trick is a Garda hitch, it is a self ratcheting hitch that only uses your haul line but you need two identical size/shaped oval biners.

Again pracrtice is the only way to use this stuff, once you start making 5,7,9:1 hauling systems the geometry/angles of you rope in relation to the load and anchors is paramount.

I frequently use hauling systems at work to haul loads up to 400lbs, and with minimal gear can bring up a large load 300ft. in just a few minutes. I have known these systems for years as an aid climber, but it took using them daily at work to really feel proficient at them and to be able to make a system on the fly. Once you learn how all this works you will be able to get creative and tailor a system to your current needs. Having a laminated sheet with all this info invaluable. You should know it by heart, but if you are panicing, hypothermic, exhausted, or have to have someone else with less experience set it up any extra help wont hurt.

Good luck, i find rope systems fun and intriguing, but maybes thats just sick..

Scott
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Old 04-29-2009   #20
 
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I think tiblocks are faster/more effective, if i'm pinned I don't care if my buddy destroys his rope getting me off. I agree that if just trying to rescue gear prusiks might be a better option.
personally I carry both.
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