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Old 05-17-2011   #81
 
Red Lodge, Montana
Paddling Since: 2003
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I think you are missing the message...Mike Perry hasen't done anything wrong, so why don't you just DROP HIS NAME FROM THIS CONVERSATION...you have definately brought this to a different level
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Old 05-17-2011   #82
gOtTaGokAyAkn'
 
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Ashville North Carolina, Colorado
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Caspermike aka Mike Perry has typed many disrespectful posts. Mike needs to be aware that his rants are seen by people who judge him because of his inconsiderate behavior. His name calling and rude behavior should not be tolerated by anybody. He deserves to be called out and should act more respectable if he wants his voice to be heard.
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Old 05-17-2011   #83
 
Arvada (Denver), Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy H. View Post
Ole Rivers,

You keep talking about the high water line and upland access or trespass as if there's something special about it with respect to Colorado law. Its my understanding that in Colorado, under the State's reading of the current law the high water line is irrelevant with respect to whether we can be cited with trespass. If you have a citation, precedent, or some accepted reading of the Colorado laws by entities responsible for law enforcement or policy enactment from Colorado, that states boaters and others can walk on private property below the high water line and be immune from trespass, please share it with us. You will have found the document that has eluded the attorneys for state and national boating advocacy groups working to reform and clarify Colorado's riparian trespass laws for decades.

If, however, you are referring to rights given in the 47 or 48 other states that allow river users to walk below the high water line, please do not speak about it as if it is our right here in Colorado.

None of us like the current riparian trespass laws in Colorado. However until they change, giving folks misleading information based on what we all WISH we could do only sows confusion, does a disservice to the boating community and could set up an unnecessary confrontation with a landowner that makes the rest of us look bad.

Thanks,

-AH
Andy,
Assuming your reply is referring to the words of my previous post rather than from another thread...

I didn't use the term "high water mark". Rather, I used the term "line of ordinary high water". Ordinary high water mark is much different than high water mark and should never be confused with the other. "up land" is different than "bed land" and, yes, I absolutely emphasize "up", the purpose of which is to clarify the difference from "bed land" in legal terms relating to ancient, common, federal and, yes, Colorado law when referencing navigable waters.

Yes, of course, I have read and understand the Colorado trespass statutes, in particular, the "premises" definition in criminal trespass concerning "beds and banks". Further, I understand the definitions of "beds" and "banks". For all intents and purposes, yes, the ordinary high water mark is relevant to trespass citations because beds and banks include all that submerged or submersible land below the ohwm.

As for citations, precedents, readings and policy enactments of Colorado concerning trespass, I'd point you to the history of the enactment of the trespass law in relation to Emmert and the Attorney General's opinion. Effectively, it's a bad law that, with competent attorneys, could be tested in court and, ultimately, lose, imo. Nobody's tested the trespass law and/or Emmert back up to the Supremes... Nobody's immune, as you write, from a trespass citation, however, I didn't write that anyone is immune.

Andy, just as other folks interested in the access and use issues, I am all about reform and clarity through legislative, judicial or initiative processes rather than on the water confrontation. I have persistently gathered many, many docs that support, confirm and help to determine these issues, some known and unknown to others, within the judicial or legislative procedural system.

As to rights achieved in other states, it should be understood that the latter states legislatively or judicially confirmed their rights based on the former ancient, common, states and federal rulings and statutes and, likely, will be confirmed in a similar fashion here in Colorado.

Yes, many, including myself, prefer language different than the existing trespass law. However, rather than wishing change, I am doing what I can to make change with clear information in a cooperative, compromise and All Win spirit.

Lastly, to get back to what I actually wrote in my previous post about emergency use of the above the ordinary high water mark up land, the language used is just about word for word of Section 3 of Oregon 2010 SB 1060 "Recreational Use of Certain Waters", which I find to be reasonable yet negotiable language for both private and public interests so that All Win.

Regards,

Richard
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Old 05-17-2011   #84
 
Idaho Springs, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
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I normally don't post on threads that have more shit talk than info (don't post much) but i have to chime in a bit...

I'm glad you guys were able to negotiate out of charges being filed. Thanks for making us aware of the incident.

Brian, I think you're first post came across fairly misleading. i read the post and it seemed like you planned on trespassing regardless of what the rancher said...I was gonna have to disagree with you but i know you didn't intend on the message being interpreted that way. Then the entire thread lost focus on the issue and it just became a brian bashing fest. I've paddled Gore with Brian several times and WE have paddled around that portage nearly all of them (been guilty too).

I paddle with Brian on a regular basis and I'm not cringing at all...KSC is right. Brian is a really nice guy and if we were all standing around the takeout sharing this story it wouldn't have escalated into the personal attacks that are happening now. It always amazes me how big a man's balls can get on an internet forum...
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Old 05-17-2011   #85
 
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Bozeman, Montana
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"Why does it concern the rancher?" Yep we are just Brian bashing... if you are an idiot plain and simple expect ridicule. Admit fault and don't make some shitty excuse about gore veterans saying its alright. Real vets only portage when they have to.

Respect starts with you. Do you deserve respect? What you post shows you clearly disrespect him placing blame else where.

Nice guy or not you are being a tool in everyway hopefully the cool rancher doesn't read what your cocky ass wrote. Not something to brag about. You should feel like a DBag.
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Old 05-17-2011   #86
 
TOUCHDOWN, Mississippi
Paddling Since: 2000
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What a pissing contest.

Brian, ask yourself this.. If the rancher hadnt caused a stink and you had yOur wrist slapped by the county mountee, would you have ever posted this thread? Or even admitted fault?

You came here as some sort of bullshit plea deal to keep your dumb ass out of trouble.

Don't come at the boating community like you are some sort of self-righteous advocate for land owners rights.
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Old 05-17-2011   #87
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Salmon, Idaho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stillwaterpaddler View Post
hey chepora, don't you have some questions about what boat you should be paddling, why don't you leave Mike alone seeing how that isn't his post, I agree with huck, stay out of Montana
and Idaho. Stay out of Idaho
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Old 05-17-2011   #88
 
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2004
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Damn, the mountainbuzz lynch mob got out the pitchforks and big torches for this shit show.

Everyone being talked shit about on this thread is a stand up boater, and a good guy I 'd be happy to paddle with.

Everyone being a loudmouth dick can stick a cork in it.

With all this hot air I am amazed the snow isn't melting faster.
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Old 05-17-2011   #89
 
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Littleton, Colorado
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Dear Andy,

Please lock this fucking thread already.

Yer pal,

-Slave
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Old 05-17-2011   #90
 
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Seattle, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepsouthpaddler View Post
With all this hot air I am amazed the snow isn't melting faster.
I'll be there next week...what'd you think I was working on? Sounds like we're all sorted then. Vets, newbs, and non-gore boaters alike agree that the
portage is off limits. It's definitely well past due to drop this shit and get after the boating! I'd love to see some more high water Goar pics if you got some.
Joe
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