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Old 05-17-2011   #51
Arvada (Denver), Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 250
Up Land Emergency Use Allowed In Exchange For Liability Limited?

OK, these guys were in violation of trespass law because they knowingly took it upon themselves to "roam at will" over private property up lands.

However, what about if it was the same or different location and the reason for trespassing (used benignly here) was an emergency use, say, a raft punctured or a paddle inadvertently was smecked up side a paddler's head, causing injury that required getting immediate attention?

imo, A person making recreational use of a waterway may travel on private property adjacent to the waterway that is above the line of ordinary high water for emergency use or portage if the person takes:
(a) the most direct and least intrusive path possible;
(b) reasonable steps to avoid damaging the property; and
(c) reasonable steps to repair any actual damage done to the property.

Also, It's a defense to a charge of criminal trespass if a person making recreational use of a waterway entered property adjacent to the waterway for emergency use, portage or to continue recreational use of the waterway and complied with the requirements written above.

Lastly, a person using private property adjacent to a waterway for emergency use, portage or to continue recreational use of the waterway is liable for actual damage caused to the property.

The public water user gets up land emergency use allowed and the private property owner gets up land liability limited.

All Win?

Talk to the father/son and/or BLM about putting up a state made sign at the put in that incorporates and serves both public and private interests with this same or similar language?

Same type sign at other statewide public access point locations? Legislation using this language?

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Old 05-17-2011   #52
caspermike's Avatar
Bozeman, Montana
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,507
Banks you a have to be the most ignorant person I have ever heard of.. I don't think your and chepora problem is listening, just comprehension! You two f*ck sticks are idiots... funny you think its not disrespectful to tresspass, in front of the dude for crying out loud. How retarded are you. Work on relations by chatting not clearly disrespecting someone's wishs. The run doesn't need to start at the mouth. It only takes 2 hours...

Why do you think this dude gets pissed when idiots can't read a sign.. delibertly tresspass in front of him... he doesn't live in Denver for a reason so quit pushing it.

Chepora I kinda like to punch you in the face.. o wait you have to have a head on your shoulders for that.

There is never a reason to tresspass this dudes land its flatwater and if there's an emergency around there best bet is railroad.. its class 1 for Christ sake the land owners shouldnt do shit. The boating community should by respecting him and paddling around, end of debate... the land owners shouldn't have to even worry about this...

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Old 05-17-2011   #53
Land of Lovin, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2006
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,449
Mike, you could upper cut him in the asshole and break his nose.
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Old 05-17-2011   #54
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 393
1.) Since Tom can't read you can't expect him to pick up on the sign that said 'No Trespassing'

2.) ~Bank- your post on page one makes you look like a d-bag. I'm not sure if you are one but I figured I should point that out.

3.) ACC reads too much internet. But at least he's reading which puts him two steps ahead of some of the other illiterates in this thread.

4.) Joe Keck lives in TX.

5.) Don't do the West Nile shuffle. It makes us all look like assholes when only some of us are. I've been peer pressured into it and I found it to be a really undignified way to travel across the earth.

6.) Maybe if Tom had an extra 10 minutes of warm up across the flatwater he wouldn't have swam like the little bitch he is.

7.) Good on y'all for admitting your mistake on the buzz where you knew you would be crucified. I'm sure you haters have never done anything stupid before.

8.) caspermike-your prose continues to leave me utterly confused. Thanks for keeping it real.

9.) Cutch is a sandbagger.
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Old 05-17-2011   #55
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Seattle, Washington
Paddling Since: 1999
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Ahhh. I love a good TT slam list! Only 28 days left in Texas! And 5 of those will be spent in CO kayaking. Do you Utards remember what that is? Still waiting for my 3.2 beer!

On a real note, it sounds like Janey and Ben spent some quality time with the rancher and may have actually improved relations assuming the community can uphold our end. We all appreciate that and your upstanding posts here (even if they were required to keep your asses outta hick jail).
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Old 05-17-2011   #56
GWS, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1992
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 486
Originally Posted by bobbuilds View Post
I let the first few go, thinking... " nah, nobody is this stupid...."

here we go, first off, none of these clowns could pull me from the river. you think flatwater is hard, imagine a 300lb person loading a rope in a 4/5 setting. All five are going to let go. no doubt.

2. why would i want to learn lines from people who portage flatwater. If you can not stay in the river for a 1/4 mile of flat water, why would i put my faith in you to be SMART and SAFE in the shit. the motor skills are there, but the common sense is not.

3. I am giving them shit, no one else seems to be, they deserve it, they ALL KNEW IT WAS TRESPASSING.

WHY, WHY, cause controversy on the ONLY early and late season run WE have, that is that good.

The fact that they got caught and were almost procecuted was the ONLY reason they came forward, they and others have been warned many times before. NOW it is serious.

I dont want to rag on about it.

The fact that people know better and still do dumb shit blows my mind. sorry you dont feel the same way, you must work in the E.R

And to to the O.P. and crew, you knew better, that is all.
Calling someone a "piece of shit" is not the same as giving someone a hard time. Your posts imply that you are a large, opinionated, loudmouth, judgmental, ignorant tool who has never intentionally broken the law.

Based on Bob's Logic he should not boat with anyone who has ever exceeded the speed limit, has ever had a beer before or while driving, has ever smoked weed, has failed to claim every penny of every tip they have ever made as a guide, or has broken any other law out there. According to Bob anyone who breaks the law simply could not have the common sense to practice good river safety. Good luck finding someone to boat with.

Please clarify for me why "NOW it is serious". Was it not serious before this incident? Is it more criminal now than it was two weeks ago? It seems to me that this incident and the way that the parties agreed to handle it actually helps mitigate the chance that it will happen again.

The guys that got caught could have just blown smoke up the farmer and sheriff’s ass and told them that they would "spread the word" and not ever actually done anything. While they should not have trespassed they did a good job following through on their promise to the farmer.
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Old 05-17-2011   #57
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dropzone, Colorado
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Old 05-17-2011   #58
smauk2's Avatar
Near water (hopefully), Colorado
Paddling Since: 2008
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Posts: 770
Originally Posted by ACC View Post
Dude that cat may appear friendly, but its actually annoying as fuck. I'm with all my other cat buddies, and were climbing these sick trees. Cheezburger (yes that is his name) keeps telling us the trees are too high. We keep telling him, yo cheezhead, if you don't like this tree its cool, but shut the fuck up!
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Old 05-17-2011   #59
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I am done. good point spencer.
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Old 05-17-2011   #60
Andy H.'s Avatar
Wheat Ridge, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,891
Originally Posted by Ole Rivers View Post
..."roam at will" over private property up lands....

imo, A person making recreational use of a waterway may travel on private property adjacent to the waterway that is above the line of ordinary high water for emergency use...
Ole Rivers,

You keep talking about the high water line and upland access or trespass as if there's something special about it with respect to Colorado law. Its my understanding that in Colorado, under the State's reading of the current law the high water line is irrelevant with respect to whether we can be cited with trespass. If you have a citation, precedent, or some accepted reading of the Colorado laws by entities responsible for law enforcement or policy enactment from Colorado, that states boaters and others can walk on private property below the high water line and be immune from trespass, please share it with us. You will have found the document that has eluded the attorneys for state and national boating advocacy groups working to reform and clarify Colorado's riparian trespass laws for decades.

If, however, you are referring to rights given in the 47 or 48 other states that allow river users to walk below the high water line, please do not speak about it as if it is our right here in Colorado.

None of us like the current riparian trespass laws in Colorado. However until they change, giving folks misleading information based on what we all WISH we could do only sows confusion, does a disservice to the boating community and could set up an unnecessary confrontation with a landowner that makes the rest of us look bad.



Nothing in the world is more yielding and gentle than water. Yet it has no equal for conquering the resistant and tough. The flexible can overcome the unbending; the soft can overcome the hard. - Lao Tse
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