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Old 05-16-2011   #21
 
sparky's Avatar
 
Ft. Collins, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2002
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I am so glad that the land owners and boaters were able to negotiate out of charges. the hard thing is that it always seems like there has to be some confrontation to get the community aware of property laws.
I would love to propose an idea to the boating community... what would it look like if we did a random act of Kindness for the land owners. what that means is that us boaters go and just do something for the land owner, with the expectation that we are not trying to get him to allow us to use his land.
here is why I think that this would be good.
1. Kremmling is small and word gets around very quick. if the boating community went out and just did something for the community with nothing in return, the community would have to take notice!
2. the Land owner expects boaters to be jerks, and we are most of the time, my wife tells me this every boating season, but if we found out a way to just help the landowner then we change the way that we are viewed. this does not mean that we get to walk across his land, but we would be repairing the damage that the boating community has caused.

so here are some ideas: have a group go out and fix fences, bail hay, even chipping in some cash to get them some farm equipment.
who knows.
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Old 05-16-2011   #22
 
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Snowmass, Colorado
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Originally Posted by sparky View Post
I am so glad that the land owners and boaters were able to negotiate out of charges. the hard thing is that it always seems like there has to be some confrontation to get the community aware of property laws.
I would love to propose an idea to the boating community... what would it look like if we did a random act of Kindness for the land owners. what that means is that us boaters go and just do something for the land owner, with the expectation that we are not trying to get him to allow us to use his land.
here is why I think that this would be good.
1. Kremmling is small and word gets around very quick. if the boating community went out and just did something for the community with nothing in return, the community would have to take notice!
2. the Land owner expects boaters to be jerks, and we are most of the time, my wife tells me this every boating season, but if we found out a way to just help the landowner then we change the way that we are viewed. this does not mean that we get to walk across his land, but we would be repairing the damage that the boating community has caused.

so here are some ideas: have a group go out and fix fences, bail hay, even chipping in some cash to get them some farm equipment.
who knows.
Good idea. How about put up fence where people are portaging? Maybe use razor-wire? That ought to get the message across.

I haven't run Gore, but I really cannot believe people are trespassing just to avoid 12 minutes of flat water. You save what, 5 minutes max? Ridiculous.
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Old 05-16-2011   #23
 
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Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2002
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 94
Hell, there's only two bars in Kremmling (I think). It should be after-Gore tradition to stop in, have a few, and commiserate with the locals. We'll leave our drysuits, pfds, and sprayskirts on so they know we're boaters. The faint of heart can wear their helmets in case of trouble, but I can't see anything bad happening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky View Post
I am so glad that the land owners and boaters were able to negotiate out of charges. the hard thing is that it always seems like there has to be some confrontation to get the community aware of property laws.
I would love to propose an idea to the boating community... what would it look like if we did a random act of Kindness for the land owners. what that means is that us boaters go and just do something for the land owner, with the expectation that we are not trying to get him to allow us to use his land.
here is why I think that this would be good.
1. Kremmling is small and word gets around very quick. if the boating community went out and just did something for the community with nothing in return, the community would have to take notice!
2. the Land owner expects boaters to be jerks, and we are most of the time, my wife tells me this every boating season, but if we found out a way to just help the landowner then we change the way that we are viewed. this does not mean that we get to walk across his land, but we would be repairing the damage that the boating community has caused.

so here are some ideas: have a group go out and fix fences, bail hay, even chipping in some cash to get them some farm equipment.
who knows.
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Old 05-16-2011   #24
 
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here is an idea, STAY IN THE FUCKIN' RIVER.... you peices of shit.
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Old 05-16-2011   #25
 
Arvada (Denver), Colorado
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Take a look at Parcel 8 on this Lower Blue Land Exchange Map Attachment 3634. If you portaged over and within this up land (not the bed land, the up land) parcel, you were trespassing. If, otoh, you portaged around 8 and were entirely on public land and/or the easement, then you were ok.

Which was it? Please point out specifically the up land portaged over, then we can go from there.

Knowledge is power. If you want to portage here legally, take this attached map with you, or, better yet, print out a Grand County Assessor's map of this area with the legal boundaries and have at your portage over public property/easement so that, if the Sheriff comes again, you can clearly evidence that you traveled, as you have a right, appropriately.

Just as the private property owner has the right to be free from trespassing, so the public sports user has the right to be free from harassment.

While I'm at it, here may be the history of those several new No Trespassing and No Portaging signs along the river at this up land property. The father, son and I were among the attendees and participants at one of the Governor's (Ritter) River Access Dispute Resolution task force meetings back in 9-11/2010 at which it was reported that, up in the Steamboat area, state No Trespassing signs seemed to prevent trespassing better than private made No Trespassing signs. These Blue River ranchers, as is my understanding, got the idea to request state signs and the rest is history.

Just as any private interest can request No Trespassing signs to gain clarity on their private property or easement right of way, so too can the public interest request Access Point signs to gain clarity on their public property or easement right of way. A case in point, for example, may be the Trough Road bridge right of way which likely has a 60 foot wide ROW, with the bridge itself being 30 feet wide and each side of the bridge having 15 feet that any type of traveler, be it bike, walking, kayak, etc., may travel within and gain access to/from the stream. Put up a couple of Access Point signs, then gate or stile the fence to accommodate rafts, kayaks and or walk-ins and/or put a half diameter of pvc over the barbed wire, etc. within the right of way to gain existing and lawful access to the stream. All Win.

In the instance of this thread, these guys likely trespassed big time and, if so, I have no sympathy for them. otoh, if, in another instance, water users were good to go where they were portaging, then the private guys should receive no sympathy to harass and intimidate.

Next time any of you boat there, maybe take a few pics of the site specific signs, portage path, parcel, etc. to further raise our awareness and clarity.

For that matter and as additionally possible, take some pics statewide of all 4 corner public access points of public bridge row's, signs, fences whether abutting bridges or across streams to share them here in this thread and/or in a dedicated thread or image section and/or send them to me to add to my collection.

Clarity of the law says "Yes." and confusion of the law says "No."
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Old 05-16-2011   #26
 
Colorado Springs, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2006
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Bob,

I before E except after C. Usually.

But yes I agree.
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Old 05-16-2011   #27
 
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Evergreen, Colorado
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Old 05-16-2011   #28
 
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Indian Hills, Colorado
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Originally Posted by Ole Rivers View Post
Take a look at Parcel 8 on.....
You could act like a sodden lawyer and try to stir up conflict where there doesn't need to be any, or you could paddle the extra 12 minutes. In the name of community relations and river access, please choose the later.
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Old 05-16-2011   #29
 
TOUCHDOWN, Mississippi
Paddling Since: 2000
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Originally Posted by bobbuilds View Post
here is an idea, STAY IN THE FUCKIN' RIVER.... you peices of shit.
.


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Old 05-16-2011   #30
 
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irvine, California
Paddling Since: 1987
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Posts: 1,193
Here's another idea bobbuilds: these folks admitted their transgression and made it right by posting to all the judgmental drunk posters such as you. Look at the bigger picture--all the 'peices (sic) of shit' know now not to push their shit peices of camel fornicating grey matter anywhere near the hay farming landowners just north of your studio apt. in East Vail.

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here is an idea, STAY IN THE FUCKIN' RIVER.... you peices of shit.
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