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Old 05-16-2011   #11
 
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Seattle, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Bank View Post
It's a personal choice; to trespass or not to trespass?...Chose wisely and face the consequences... Someone might set up a game camera and post pics of portage violators on the buzz or the rancher might shoot holes in boats with his rifle... It has no effect on the rest of the boating community. There is no way to take away an American's right to be within a navigable river bed. If the railroad removed all their garbage and undid all the destruction from the canyon I will begin to have a little respect...
Total dumbass. Janey you better bitch slap your boy before he really fucks up.
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Old 05-16-2011   #12
 
GWS, Colorado
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In response to Brian's comment, I have to say that these guys are not the types who would set up a game camera or pull a gun on someone. They are down to earth, understanding folks who just want some honesty and respect from us. And not giving that respect does have an effect of the boating community. It makes us all look like a bunch of doochebags. Which we occasionally are, I guess...
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Old 05-16-2011   #13
ACC
 
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Originally Posted by JCKeck1 View Post
Total dumbass. Janey you better bitch slap your boy before he really fucks up.
Right? Why does it not surprise me that this is the same guy who got in over his head and almost saw a buddy die at Berthoud this year and then told everyone on TGR that it was all fine because their fat skis allowed them to ski out of avalanches/self arrest?
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Old 05-16-2011   #14
 
dillon, Colorado
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Thanks for posting this, it takes a lot of courage to admit fault, especially in a public forum. I think everyone who paddles that stretch can learn a lot from this post. I have some friends who have crossed that portage a few times in the past...I'll definitely pass the post on to them. No one wants the issue to escalate, or to anger the landowners.
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Old 05-16-2011   #15
 
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Bozeman, Montana
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It's not even a mandatory trespass. That was lame guys. Everybody knows that dude is feed up. And he was standing right there when you guys did do it.. any of you actually think about consequences of doing it right in front of him and plus gore only takes hour and half from put in to take out. At 1400. Obviously stealth is not in your boys vocabulary. Dont head to Wyo. Cause from the sounds none of you can handle an extra 10 mins of beautiful flatwater.. so hard to paddle flatwater. Kind of wish he shot a couple holes in banks kayak...bank you are officially The Buzz DBag!
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Old 05-16-2011   #16
 
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Near water (hopefully), Colorado
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Ha Banks is getting shit faster than a colfax strider contracts the clap. I imagine it won't be long before the whole buzz is applauding banksy. <------ My sorry (really sorry) attempt at a double entrendre.
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Old 05-16-2011   #17
 
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Boulder, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chepora View Post
Thanks for posting this, it takes a lot of courage to admit fault, especially in a public forum. I think everyone who paddles that stretch can learn a lot from this post. I have some friends who have crossed that portage a few times in the past...I'll definitely pass the post on to them. No one wants the issue to escalate, or to anger the landowners.
This was what we were hoping would happen,, it is good to see that some people are getting some good info out. I personally did not know how sensitive the situation was before this incident.
And Brian I love boating with ya buddy, but if you try and do that portage when I am there you can just keep on paddling because you will be soloing the run.
-Tom
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Old 05-16-2011   #18
 
Denver, Colorado
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It sucks you guys got busted. With that said, props for having a positive discussion with the land owners and sheriff, and props for airing this on the buzz to spread the word.

For years, I never did the portage. My logic was that boaters have enough issues with landowners in general that it just doesn't make sense to risk confrontation to shave off 12 mins of flatwater. I recently did the portage with some portaging regulars and let my personal thoughts slacken when I was in a minority opinion. Personally, I won't do it again.

Will the particular issue of portaging the meander on the gore paddle in change gore access to most boaters... NO. Could it impact the boating community as a whole... YES.

The lower blue takeout has seen some conflicts with private landowners lately (from what I heard). Not sure if its the same landowners, but if not, they are neighbors and I am sure they talk. Maybe gore paddlers don't care much about the blue, but to the public, boaters are boaters.

Also, there are private landowner issues all over the state. If boaters in general act with disregard and disrespect to private landowners, we as a community will get branded with the negativity. It doesn't take too many bad apples to spoil the whole bunch in the landowners eyes, or general public. The taylor incident last year had the potential to shut down access to boaters on that stretch (and potentially set a bad precedent). What boaters really want to fight for is the right to float and the right to portage / scout when the need arises due to safety. We put ourselves in a weak position when it comes out that in reality we want to trespass to take shortcuts. The issues are intertwined, even if folks don't see it. Local gore paddlers might not ever know, but its the veteran boating community reps going to state legislative events that will be the ones that hear about it, and have to figure out a way to downplay negative actions of the boating community as they fight for our rights.

The issue hits home for me personally. I've been negotiating for over a year to use a private land owners river front property for camping at bailey fest this year. Part of the agreement is my word that boaters are stand up folks who take care of the river, respect others, and do the right thing. Its certainly going to be harder to convince folks like this to help out the boating community in the future if they hear stories of boaters screwing things up. There are many colorado gems that have tenuous access issues, and dealing with private landowners is something that will likely be around for a long time.

Also, don't think for a second that private land owners don't talk, share info, read the buzz, or have other ways of knowing what goes on. What gets done locally can impact other parts of the state. I can think of access issues with landowners in pretty much every major drainage in the state. I can also think up triple that number of quality runs that don't have issues due to good landowner relations that could sour if not managed correctly.

For the future, I'd consider the extra 12 mins a good flatwater workout and a chance to shoot the shit with your buddies on the river.
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Old 05-16-2011   #19
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Didn't Fraser access just get shut down as well for similar disrespect? People are fucking up in Grand county.
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Old 05-16-2011   #20
 
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Lakewood, Colorasta
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Well said Ian. . . hopefully your wise words will help lessen some of the myopic actions of our paddlin peers.



Quote:
Originally Posted by deepsouthpaddler View Post
It sucks you guys got busted. With that said, props for having a positive discussion with the land owners and sheriff, and props for airing this on the buzz to spread the word.

For years, I never did the portage. My logic was that boaters have enough issues with landowners in general that it just doesn't make sense to risk confrontation to shave off 12 mins of flatwater. I recently did the portage with some portaging regulars and let my personal thoughts slacken when I was in a minority opinion. Personally, I won't do it again.

Will the particular issue of portaging the meander on the gore paddle in change gore access to most boaters... NO. Could it impact the boating community as a whole... YES.

The lower blue takeout has seen some conflicts with private landowners lately (from what I heard). Not sure if its the same landowners, but if not, they are neighbors and I am sure they talk. Maybe gore paddlers don't care much about the blue, but to the public, boaters are boaters.

Also, there are private landowner issues all over the state. If boaters in general act with disregard and disrespect to private landowners, we as a community will get branded with the negativity. It doesn't take too many bad apples to spoil the whole bunch in the landowners eyes, or general public. The taylor incident last year had the potential to shut down access to boaters on that stretch (and potentially set a bad precedent). What boaters really want to fight for is the right to float and the right to portage / scout when the need arises due to safety. We put ourselves in a weak position when it comes out that in reality we want to trespass to take shortcuts. The issues are intertwined, even if folks don't see it. Local gore paddlers might not ever know, but its the veteran boating community reps going to state legislative events that will be the ones that hear about it, and have to figure out a way to downplay negative actions of the boating community as they fight for our rights.

The issue hits home for me personally. I've been negotiating for over a year to use a private land owners river front property for camping at bailey fest this year. Part of the agreement is my word that boaters are stand up folks who take care of the river, respect others, and do the right thing. Its certainly going to be harder to convince folks like this to help out the boating community in the future if they hear stories of boaters screwing things up. There are many colorado gems that have tenuous access issues, and dealing with private landowners is something that will likely be around for a long time.

Also, don't think for a second that private land owners don't talk, share info, read the buzz, or have other ways of knowing what goes on. What gets done locally can impact other parts of the state. I can think of access issues with landowners in pretty much every major drainage in the state. I can also think up triple that number of quality runs that don't have issues due to good landowner relations that could sour if not managed correctly.

For the future, I'd consider the extra 12 mins a good flatwater workout and a chance to shoot the shit with your buddies on the river.
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