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Old 01-06-2010   #11
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Baytopia, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randaddy View Post
I say we all go run it as soon as it thaws! F#*k that Texan.
critical mass. pick a day I'll be there.
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Old 01-06-2010   #12
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taylor canyon breaks down like this-

LONG VERSION STARTS HERE

SHORT VERSION SKIP DOWN
the first section is the gold medal water right below the dam. dont boat here. just below this (right in the middle of some fun lookin class II+) it enters private property owned by someone famous (i dont remember who) but the next five or six miles are private and not allowed, but its completely flat anyway. there are several bridges RIGHT over the water that force portaging, and thus, trespassing. this ends at the lottis creek confluence.

from here down to the lodgepole campground is public, this is the "upper upper taylor" run, fun class III+.

below this to just above the New Gen put in is Crystal Creek, which is mostly run by the gandys and their cohorts. they used to be small time but this last summer they erected a HUGE castle in the heart of the canyon thats just an eyesore. it changed the feel of the canyon forever. this is private, and also the site of where the guy (mr gandy) discharged his firearm near some private boaters. the river through here is ugly, lots and lots of purposefully shallow ledges and fish dams, and a few low bridges. ive heard people claim theyve floated through here before and done so without portaging, im not quite sure because ive never been in there, but i would imagine portaging would be not only likely but mandatory. this ends just above Tod's Slot.

from here down to harmels is the "Upper Taylor" we all know and love.

from south bank (really granite campground, although thats a shitty takeout when youve got SB just upstream) down to five mile is the stretch is question. the first part of this runs through the "Harmels" resort, and while they frown upon and discourage private boating, they know there is nothing they can do to stop them. matt at scenic river tours (one of the canyon's guiding outfits) has permission with matt and amy to run commercially through there, which they do, and i believe schumacher of three rivers (the other company) has it as well, but does not use it. at any rate, it is a shitty piece of river. there are over twenty notable fish ledges, all of which have sneaks but are generally very trashy, and one large fish dam which doesnt have a sneak so much as a "drop over the smallest point" kinda line.

SHORT VERSION RESUME HERE
the stretch below harmels is the stretch thats been in question for a long time, where it flows past the homeowner corridor on river left, and what was the ranch but is now The Wilder on the Taylor on river right. the new owners of the property, the Shaws, have come in and transformed what was originally a beautiful ranch and surrounding fields into a sprawling development that will soon be host to a number of second homes, likely in the "larger" to "larger" size. in the process he spent around a million bucks to build himself a fake babbling brook that runs across the meadow, and to feed that brrok he installed two large pumps that directly siphon water out of the taylor river. in doing so he altered two existing fish drops, creating two mildly exciting to dangerous features, one of which i refuse to run now. its the only drop on the entire taylor that i will walk. i dont know how he acquired the rights to the water, and everyone i have talked to (including employees) say theyre pretty sure the guy never got his USACE permits to do the river work, but who knows.

unless he intends to install fences or automatic machine gun nests around the river, hes not going to stop us. i intend to keep running this piece of shit stretch of river just to prove a point, and i suggest everyone else do the same. the guy is a pompous ass and just hasnt realized his place in life yet. but he will in time. hell the construction workers were cheering us on this summer as we were blue angel-ing farmers bridge. i really dont think this is much of a point, we can either fight a long legal battle or just quietly give him the finger and keep doing what were doing. i prefer the latter.
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Old 01-06-2010   #13
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Niwot View Post
Please read this article. Curry bill would keep river rights-of-way in public hands

Another Tex-A$$ developer to try to close down the Taylor River.

"The issue was sparked anew this summer when a Texas developer, Lewis Shaw, purchased thousands of acres of land on the Taylor River in Gunnison County with the intent of reselling it as exclusive 35-acre ranches."

I wonder if this is the totally obscene mansion that was being built on the upper section of the Taylor last summer. I also saw tractors working the riverbed.

Rep. Kathleen Curry's is trying to introduce a bill would keep river rights-of-way in public hands. I need to read this bill.

The land in question is not in the upper section of the Taylor above Todd's Slot. The development that Shaw is doing is below Harmel's (where Spring Creek flows into the Taylor) and directly above the 5 Mile put in. This would effectively block continuous floating from the upper Taylor to the Lower Taylor. They constructed new bridges last year that are raft unfriendly - lots of concrete not in line with the current and very low at good water flows. My friend got his oar frame stuck in there for a bit last year. He is also pumping a lot of water out of the Taylor and through the property to make artificial streams. This water does eventually flow back to the Taylor. It is my understanding that he does own the water rights but it leaves a section of the river with less flow than above and below the pump/return.

The mansion being built up the river above Todd's Slot is owned by the Becktel's. Big defense contractor for the US government similar to Black Water.

Trespassing on the property directly below the dam was (is?) considered a violation of Nation Security years ago. Presidents and dignitaries from foreign nations used to come there to fish on that private water. When that was the case there were Secret Service agents all over the property. I had a friend try and kayak it 20 years ago - he was "arrested" by the secret service and held for a week without charges being filed until they drug up some prior warrants to charge him with. He went to jail for a while and never did get his kayak back. While I believe the property has changed hands since then, long time locals still avoid trespassing there with memories from the old days. That section also has a number of very low walking bridges that would require portaging around which would undeniably be considered trespassing.
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Old 01-07-2010   #14
 
Park City, Utah
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Chrystal creek section

I've floated this section. It has been 10years since I did so.

Any white water would be eddy lines created by chaneling water through fish dams. Lot's of private guides paying for access who were respectful but pissed I was there. I would float through without putting a paddle in the water. It was very pretty water, but of no real value from a whitewater perspective. Excellent fishing water, but I hve not been brash enough to float through it and fish.

There was no portaging necessary at that time. I don't think you ever had to touch river bottom either. It was worth doing once to see it, but after that time I always put on down at the historic put in.
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Old 01-07-2010   #15
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thanks for filling in what i missed, i knew that upper piece was owned by somebody worth some money but i couldnt remember who. other than the short bit of whitewater at the top, right below the gold medal section, its really flat and boring. surprised youre buddy even thought it was worth doing..

And thats interesting that it was the Becktel's- we did some early surveying for that castle but we always dealt with a guy named Gandy, who was the same one who was shootin' at the boaters. Guy was a total asshole, but Ive never met the Becktel's. There is also a state senator from texas who weve done work for that lives in the trees on river left through there.

what bridges are you talking about on the middle? other than the pre-existing old FS bridge and the new bridge just above the diversion drop i cant recall any new bridges on there. that new one is an eyesore, its new but it was designed to look "old and rustic" and its just tacky. the Farmers Bridge downstream is and always has been an obstacle, especially since the right side has a tendency to get clogged, yet you need to be right after the bridge. but that bridge has been around for a while, and other than that i didnt see any new bridges, so which ones are you talking about?

again, thanks for filling in the gaps. we'll get em yet.
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Old 01-07-2010   #16
 
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I know the upper upper section is not big with the IV-V boaters, but us IV- /III+ boaters like it to make a longer run/day. We (canoe crew) like running that Upper Upper section. We put in at Lodgepole campground and float to South Bank. The upper upper has one class IV- and some III+ at the beginning, then some flatish water with fish drops, then III+ to Todd's. There is one low bridge and some tree dodging in spots. We have never had trouble up there, but have had some looks.

You also need to be aware of the guy at the bottem of Initiation rapid. This guy is wacked. He pulled a gun on my buddy a couplke years ago for getting out of his boat for a sec due to a neck/spine injury, when trying to roll. A report was filed and the cops came and dealt with him. He is not playing with a full deck.

I have never floated the lower section, but I agree that we all need to support our right to float the whole river from Upper Upper down. Fuck that Texan and his money.
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Old 01-07-2010   #17
 
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Was this guy arrested for shooting at people?
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Old 01-07-2010   #18
 
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He did not shoot at my buddy, but shakily pointed his gun at them and told them to get off his property. My buddy and friends were very nervous as he pointed the gun at them. They got in their boats ASAP and moved on and filed a police report after. This guy is not mentally right, be careful.
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Old 01-07-2010   #19
 
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Originally Posted by Chief Niwot View Post
If I remember correctly he is on the upper stretch above Todd's slot. If he closes it down to rafting companies, he will surely close it down to private boaters. We boat that upper stretch a couple times a year, there are some fun rapids up there and some flat water. But there is more then that stretch that is on the line and this guy has BIG bucks.

I hope AW is on this.
American Whitewater - House Bill Proposes Right of River Navigation in Colorado
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Old 01-07-2010   #20
 
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Nathan,

Thanks for posting the link to the synopsis. Reading the AW write up it seems like it only applies to commercial outfitters.

Does the bill have any provisions to help protect private boaters?

Thanks,

-AH
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