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Old 07-06-2008   #11
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The High Ground, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Frank View Post
HE said DIVER, not driver, but still seems like a sketch recovery.
My bad. I'm sorry Stumpster. It will be interesting for sure.

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Old 07-06-2008   #12
 
Littleton, Colorado
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Originally Posted by Snowhere View Post
Because the fed (in charge of interstate highways) sucks!

Snowhere--

I'm guessing you're just mindlessly repeating what you hear everybody mindlessly saying about the "government", in an attempt to be humorous--as a transportation engineer for the state though, I definitely have to respond to your post and stick up for us gov't agency reps--and I also have to say, your post is a classic example of the old saying: "you can stay silent and people might think you're an idiot, or you can speak up and remove all doubt"

Just to set the record straight:

1st of all, the state administers the planning, design, construction, and maintenance of interstate highways in CO, not the feds (fhwa)

2nd, the river is not State highway right-of-way, and therefore not within the jurisdiction of the transportation department (I don't know for certain what other state agency might have jurisdiction tho...)

3rd - I believe, and please correct me if I'm wrong--this situation is the result of the (excessive, irresponsible, and negligent) water-consumption operations at the oil and gas facility--the oil company and/or the water trucking company is therefore responsible and liable for the recovery/remediation work and any associated resulting damages.

4th--just fyi, a recovery/removal operation of this nature will obviously be extremely difficult and will require planning and resources, and the costs to remove a tanker truck in the middle of a high-water river will be very expensive: a sufficiently large crane would prob cost $10k to $20k PER DAY, minimum; dive staff, containment and remediation work, traffic control costs, emergency response, etc. would run just about as much--this work doesn't just happen when you snap your fingers, and and somebody has to pay for it--I would guess that you are unaware of the logistics and actual costs of such work are or how they're derived, or how funds for such emergency work are appropriated and administered.

I'm also fairly certain that you, like many people, have little or no knowledge of the details of how the highway funds for design, construction, and maintenence are appropriated at the state and federal legislative levels for use by the agencies that "suck", and how little funds are available compared to the work required in the state of CO and around the rest of the country--not to mention now taking the rap for not instantaneously responding to some driver's or mechanic's (or more likely some overly profit-conscious equipment manager's) fuck-up that resulted in a truck in the river

look, I criticize the inefficiencies of our state and local gov'ts as much as the next guy, and I get plenty of good-natured razzing as a gov't employee by my private sector colleagues too--but they and I also know what it takes to administer complex, lengthy design and construction projects, and to navigate complex gov't regulations too. Everybody's entitled to their opinion, but please--take a moment to educate yourself next time before subjecting us all to your mis/uninformed ranting
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Old 07-07-2008   #13
 
Gypsum, Colorado
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You're kidding right? The driver of what?
Put your contacts on man!
They will probably hook more than one line on it but that's how it is usually done!
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Old 07-07-2008   #14
 
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Farmington, New Mexico
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Originally Posted by Jay H View Post
Snowhere--

4th--just fyi, a recovery/removal operation of this nature will obviously be extremely difficult and will require planning and resources, and the costs to remove a tanker truck in the middle of a high-water river will be very expensive: a sufficiently large crane would prob cost $10k to $20k PER DAY, minimum; dive staff, containment and remediation work, traffic control costs, emergency response, etc. would run just about as much--this work doesn't just happen when you snap your fingers, and and somebody has to pay for it--
Well, then the idiots who hired the f**k-nut driver who did it need to buck up and recover their s**t. Isn't that what the EPA is all about? Holding commercial companies responsible for keeping their crap out of the river?
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Old 07-07-2008   #15
 
Gypsum, Colorado
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lol.. didn't read page 2, No worries Theophilus!
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Old 07-07-2008   #16
 
Greeley, Colorado
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The accident happened on a public ramp access just above the bridge. The oil field water trucks have been backing down to the river for a few years now. Since then they have placed a row of the concrete barriers there as a band-aid. The tanker in the river was washed downstream 500'+ past the bridge. Trucks back down to the river 3 or 4 wide, 24/7 at this location. We put-in here last year to float to Debeque, for a day trip, it was a challenge to stay out of the way to unload and launch.
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Old 07-07-2008   #17
 
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A little off topic but food for thought...does anyone know if the owners of these trucks who are filling their tanks 24 hours a day have water rights to do so. And assuming they do (which I won't) how much are they entitled to and I wonder if anyone is actually monitoring their consumption (besides themselves of course and who would question the integrity and honesty of oil and gas interests?)
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Old 07-07-2008   #18
 
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New Castle, Colorado
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They were all set to remove it but the Sheriffs department stop them and wouldn't lend any assistance from SAR so the companies pulled off till the Sheriffs department say's it is safe.
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Old 07-07-2008   #19
 
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Buena Vista, Colorado
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Hey Jayh, you are certainly right I was just busting without any real knowledge of the situation. I just assumed that any domestic endeavor is starving for funds under the current administration. I also assumed that it becomes the feds responsibility once it involves the river. Something about navigable waterways that cross state lines just smacks of federal jurisdiction.

I certainly do not blame the state or the transportation corps for this and I completely agree that the oil and gas company whose water truck it is, should be held responsible for the clean up. Where I disagree is that the fed has the force behind them to get the responsible parties rolling quickly. Money talks and I expect a operation like this to run $50,000 easily. I am used to renting cranes for $250/hr, but would double that assuming they would need larger cranes then what we use, and most likely more then one. I know that if you need a crane fast during the busy summer construction season, you have to pull strings and it is not easy. I would just think that any incident involving a truck in the river would be dealt with as quick as possible.
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Old 07-07-2008   #20
 
Littleton, Colorado
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Snowhere--

No worries mate--just needed to represent the civil servants!

I understand the ire though--It is certainly unnerving to see a truck just left in the river, no matter the cargo--I hadn't even heard of it till reading this thread. What if that was a petro or chemical tanker? Is there even a response protocol for that?

--and you're right, the agency budgets are starved under this administration what with the tax cuts and half-billion in Iraq, but even the state budgets have been decimated--CDOT just lost ~$80 million in SB 1310 funds for FY '08, so a ton of design and construction projects that were set to go this fiscal year just got shelved, probably indefinitely ...

Although, I have to say though, that as far as the federal gov't getting parties rolling quickly, one need only look at the leadville mine dewatering situation, and the bickering b/t the BLM, congress, etc. over responsiblity--not setting any speed records on that response!

syotr!

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