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Old 03-28-2016   #1
don't bogart that
rpludwig's Avatar
Frosted Flakes N of Baytuckey, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 180
River Running vs Running a River

River Running for those who don't know is where you separate your group to gain a camp/ramp/or other advance for your group. While not allowed on permitted trips this practice is used on the river by some groups. While combat camping is a practice used by the anxious, scared, small minded, self righteous people, I feel it hurts the river community. Please keep your groups together and communicate with other groups for camping arrangements. I put this in the Safety section because nobody wants conflict on the river just because the section is unpermitted. Rivers are a chance to unwind and enjoy the simple joys of life, Please keep it ethical and friendly, their is room for us all.

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Old 03-28-2016   #2
Nye, Montana
Paddling Since: 2012
Join Date: May 2015
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What? It's ethical to send a couple boats out early to get to next camp site. We do it everytime...there's nothing against the law either.

The rogue river guides do it. That pissed me off though. They send the younguy, in shape guy. I raced him last time and won the race to get to the camp site. I gave it to him anyway. There was only 3 in our group. Just wanted to give him a scare. He was in a 18 ft gear boat. Still fun.

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Old 03-28-2016   #3
Salt Lake City, Utah
Paddling Since: 2008
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Posts: 338
Going ahead to dibs camp is weak
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Old 03-28-2016   #4
dirtbagkayaker's Avatar
Bazzaro, World
Paddling Since: 2020
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In my book "river running" is a niche in kayaking.

I've always refereed to this issue as camp jumping. But hey, There is no law that says one group per beach.... So, I have no issues setting up camp at the other end of the beach. I do it all the time. Made a lot of good friends that way. I don't care who got there first, unless its a reservable site.
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Old 03-28-2016   #5
Salida, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1986
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Seems like the OP had an incident that led to the post. If so, care to share any particulars?
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Old 03-29-2016   #6
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Fraser, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
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Originally Posted by DoStep View Post
Seems like the OP had an incident that led to the post. If so, care to share any particulars?
Perhaps so.
I would have to agree with the man though, I have done some racing people to camp, and I'm not proud of it, kinda destroyed the experience for me, probably didn't help theres either.
Seems like life on the river ends up way better when I allow the trip catching up to me, to just catch up, say high, be friendly, and discus camp sites with them. Some times they are just moving faster then I am, some times they really are out to get my camp, but we end up coming to a friendly agreement.

So much better when you can leave the stress and animosity that finds it's way into society, behind. My two cents on the topic.
" I wish I were a headlight, on a North bound train..."
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Old 03-29-2016   #7
don't bogart that
rpludwig's Avatar
Frosted Flakes N of Baytuckey, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 180
It happened on a section that I know well between two groups that were behind us/ infront of us, they looked like novice boaters with a pile of loin monkeys in each group, needless to say we camped way down stream of the show. No biggie just want happy people, and ya it really gets me when you see the mule away from the custies while on a trip, I just file a complaint against the outfitter once I get off the river with the permitting agency.

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Old 03-29-2016   #8
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Wheat Ridge, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
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Posts: 2,909
We don't normally think of the Arkansas when we're talking about this kind of stuff but it's standard practice for the outfitters to send the gear boat down to grab a campsite in the morning so camp will be secured and set up by the time the custys pull in that afternoon.

Nothing in the world is more yielding and gentle than water. Yet it has no equal for conquering the resistant and tough. The flexible can overcome the unbending; the soft can overcome the hard. - Lao Tse
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Old 03-29-2016   #9
Nye, Montana
Paddling Since: 2012
Join Date: May 2015
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Isn't the law that all permit holders must camp together, but they don't have to be near each other while rafting during the day.

The last rogue run we did, there were 16 of us. Every morning 2 boats left early and got to camp and started setting up. Everyone else left around 10 or 11 am. It didn't occur to me that it was unethical. I mean, the gear boat has a whole beach to himself at noon chilling with 20 empty chairs around a fire ring. The customers come rolling in later with everything all set up. That's how it's always done. Isn't that what they do on the mf salmon also?
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Old 03-29-2016   #10
Jenks, Oklahoma
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,408
The data pasted in below is from the official Grand Canyon Private boating trip rules PDF.

The motorized craft must never exceed the speed of or tow the human powered watercraft. All watercraft must
travel down river together at the pace of the slowest watercraft and never out of sight of each other except as
needed to get through a rapid. Trip watercraft may not separate for any reason including securing campsites or
allowing slower craft to get a head-start.


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