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Old 07-09-2009   #81
 
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I think I might even know one of the ladies in that photo. How many kayakers did you see go through doing just as they should?

Anyway, please lay out your proposal on how to fix this issue. Here is what it seems you are proposing: Shut down the road, stop everyone from boating any section of the river anywhere, retroactively tax everyone that has been down the river to pay for the 8 foot electrified fences and cameras that go to the center of the river and down along property lines. If the electric fences don't get anyone that dares enter the river at that point arrest them and throw away the key.

I know that isn't what you are actually proposing but you didn't like the idea of enforcing the current laws...

BTW, thank you for cleaning up after those bad apples and practicing what you preach.
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Old 07-09-2009   #82
 
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It's interesting that it took huckleberry's 7th post to include this specific example.
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Old 07-09-2009   #83
 
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I'm no lawyer, but I recall that Colorado has a law that indemnifies landowners if someone gets hurt while trespassing for purposes of recreation.

However, that said, anybody can sue you for anything, and even if they lose (even in a summary judgement), you're out at least $10k for a lawyer, and usually much more.
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Old 07-09-2009   #84
 
Buena Vista, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamyourhuckleberry View Post
Matt,

This past weekend while waiting to get this photograph:
http://www.camospace.com/file/pic/gallery/248854.jpg (that's my daughter right next to the captain-top right). I watched four kayakers remove their boats from the river. They obviously parked at the bridge and ferried another vehicle upriver. When they began stowing their gear, one of the boaters opened his car door and a bunch of trash fell out. They then popped beers while they were in the process of removing their wet suits. One lady grabbed a roll of TP and marched off under the bridge. When they left, their trash didn't go with them and a beer can rolled from the top of the car and onto the ground. They simply drove away. I was bagging their trash when I was greeted by the owner.

Keep in mind, I have travel to this location since I was a wee lad. I have watched this area develop over the years. Small sections of the road where people once parked single vehicles are now large parking lots for multi vehicles. Moreover, these areas are becoming larger-a gross invasion from the road easements onto private property. The vehicles belong to rafters and kayakers-apparent by the roof racks and trailers. Seems they feel they have the right to park wherever in pursuit of their interest. Such disrespect comes at the expense of the land owner. That a look at past aerial photographs of the region if you do not believe me.



Easier said than done...

I am a sportsman within a community of sportsman (kayakers included) My first love is hunting. What has been given to us is not a "right" but rather a "priviledge"-something that can be voted away. Have you noticed all the gates going up into BLM and National Forest lands? These two entities are becoming feed up with bad apples as well. I love riding my AtVs on designated trails. It's becoming harder and harder these days to even do that...Why? I will tell you. 10% of the communtiy doesn't give a rat's arse. They break the rules and all of us pay the price. I know from what I reading that I'm singing to the choir. What I do not understand, if it is so near and dear to us, then why is this stuff still happening? Why is it the landowner's responsibility to go after the "them"? Isn't it our job to police ourselves? Maybe, just maybe, if we do so at every level and within every aspect of the sportsman's community, then the gates will start dropping. Just saying....
I'm a little confused by this story and how it relates to the issues at #5. The photo that you claim you were waiting to take is of a Wilderness Aware Rafting commerical raft that is not anywhere near the Numbers section of the Arkansas. Notice, no helmets (a company requirement for a Numbers trip), kids obviously under 16 (another requirement for the Numbers), a lunch cooler (WA drops coolers at Railroad Bridge for lunch on Numbers trips).

I can't quite pin it down but it looks more like Zoom Flume shot from river left but I'm not sure. Maybe someone else can peg the location.

If this is your photo, it's obviously not of a boat in the Numbers (or anyhwhere near the bridge) so I don't understand how it substantiates your claim of having seen folks littering and sneaking under the CR371 bridge at Otero to drop a deuce while you were waiting to take it.
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Old 07-09-2009   #85
 
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I looked at that photo and story a little cross eyed as well but in the spirit of a good converstation and a good debate I'm taking his word on the story. I think it is besides the point and counter productive to question it at this point after I asked him for specifics four times.

Obviously the guy has an ax to grind and a personal stake in something, lets focus on the real issues here and be constructive...
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Old 07-09-2009   #86
 
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Good detective work! I hadn't clicked on the photo before posting my hesitation as to the validity of the story. Definitely NOT #5.
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Old 07-09-2009   #87
 
Durango, Colorado
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This whole thread is completely ridiculous

Have you people ever visited a river with real access issues? The Arkansas has literally hundreds of places to legally access the river. Similarly, there are several legal places where you can view #5. I cannot believe that people are complaining because they can't get their most preferred view of a Class III rapid. This landowner owns the land, so he is entitled to not invite you onto it. He hasn't come out weilding a gun or anything, he just asked you not to trespass, which is well within his rights. Let this thread die and find some real problem to complain about.
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Old 07-09-2009   #88
 
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Hummm... This really pissed me off, so I did some of my own detective work.

If you go to AVDI: Colorado whitewater river rafting photos and videography and do a search for July 6, 2009 and indicate BROWNS CANYON and Wilderness Aware, leave the time of trip blank, search, go to page 6 and look at photo #504482... it's almost an exact replica of the link in the above post. The difference being that the watermark for 'whitewaterphotography.com' is missing in the one linked above.

Nice photo of Zoom Flume taken by a professional photographer. That's two confirmed lies.
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Old 07-09-2009   #89
 
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Strong work! I do think credibility is an issue here!
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Old 07-09-2009   #90
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmaciag View Post
Hummm... This really pissed me off, so I did some of my own detective work.

If you go to AVDI: Colorado whitewater river rafting photos and videography and do a search for July 6, 2009 and indicate BROWNS CANYON and Wilderness Aware, leave the time of trip blank, search, go to page 6 and look at photo #504482... it's almost an exact replica of the link in the above post. The difference being that the watermark for 'whitewaterphotography.com' is missing in the one linked above.

Nice photo of Zoom Flume taken by a professional photographer. That's two confirmed lies.
504477 IS the exact photo... Sketchy...
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