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Old 05-04-2009   #51
Andy H.'s Avatar
Wheat Ridge, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,891
they do not have any water rights, so as long as you are floating you are not trespassing
Whether the landowner has water rights is totally irrelevant to the issue of trespassing or floating over/through their property.

Nothing in the world is more yielding and gentle than water. Yet it has no equal for conquering the resistant and tough. The flexible can overcome the unbending; the soft can overcome the hard. - Lao Tse
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Old 05-04-2009   #52
tango's Avatar
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2003
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 686
as someone who paddles piney & numbers after work all summer long, let me say this: please don't go trespassing in this guy's yard when you can easily scout from the bridge or the road. if you want to portage, well, maybe go hone your skills on another section of the river.

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Old 05-04-2009   #53
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Lakewood, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2002
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 670
The point I was trying to make is that a panic was started last week, but perhaps this was just jumping to conclusions (as stated earlier). It appears that nothing has changed on the river (vs the road) as there are no signs on the river.

I can understand not wanting a bunch of people parking in front of my house and crossing my land to get to the river, but perhaps a little more understanding about boaters having a smaller impact by getting out of their boats for a few minutes and not having a significant impact. There were fences and signs installed on the road, not on the river. If they were as concerned about river scouting, I'd guess there would be similar signage near the water as there is on other sections of the Ark.

I'm not arguing who owns what nor what trespassing is, but some owners allow for scouting/portaging. This has been standard practice for a long time at this spot. If there was a 'no trespassing' sign on the bank, we would not have done it. Just wanted to pass along my observations.

Originally Posted by Paul the Kayaker View Post's numbers, why scout, it's not that exciting so make it more so by not knowing what is around the corner. If you need to be scouting maybe head down stream to browns.
You've never scouted a rapid you were running for the first time? I was assisting two of my capable friends on their first run down this section. They cleaned the rapid after taking a look. Yes, I'm sure it increased their chance for success, but isn't that what scouting is all about? Thanks for assuming they should be on an easier run.

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain
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Old 05-04-2009   #54
pnw, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,404
Scouting is a skill like any other. If you dont teach people how to scout as they progress, how are they going to learn?
"Yesterday I was clever and tried to change the world. Today I am wise and try to change myself." -Rumi
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Old 05-05-2009   #55
Master of Chaos
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 73
same thoughts with paddlebizzle, but cannot stress enough that landowner has every right to give you hell if you step foot on their property. It would be nice if you were chasing a floater that they wouldn't harass you in full, but they do have the right. In CO we can float by as they do not own the water, or most of it in some cases, but they can let the hammer down if you get out on their property.

Having AW or boating community work out an arrangement would be great, but first, all boaters need to respect private property and not give this owner any grief as this will only limit what can happen in the future.

I haven't paddled the numbers in some their any way to scout from river left?
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Old 05-05-2009   #56
Buena Vista, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1976
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 55
Update. According to reliable sources, the whole vigorous defense of property rights in this case may have to do with a neighbor to neighbor dispute and really had nothing to do with boaters. Discussions may already be underway with AHRA with the goal of alleviating any safety concerns arising from the change in longstanding practice of scouting directly above #5. Also, I saw the surveyor out this week. I heard a rumor that is not clear that the big eddy on river left belongs to the new landowners. It is private, nonetheless, and you still might not have permission to scout at this point in time. I think I'll practice patience and politeness. Viva Pee Wee!
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Old 05-07-2009   #57
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185 lb. waste of space, Keeping Glenwood Springs real
Paddling Since: 1864
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Posts: 917
Completely irrelevant, but anytime there is some #'s talk I got to chime in. Yes there is a need to scout and to hone that skill, but not on numbers. You have to get through that run as quick as possible so as not to waste any more of your life on it. Besides I agree with P the K, what is there to scout? I still have yet to find these rapids people talk about on the run.
Follow DD's advice cause you only get to run a drop blind once.
970-217-21 six six
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Old 05-27-2009   #58
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 22
Just discovered this issue

I was up there last weekend for the first time in a couple of years. Decided to check out number 5 on the drive in. I walked past the him and his house and his roadside fence. Then scrambled down bank to the river for a quick look. This is well below where I would normally direct the wife to a good viewing point and I didn't think it was his land, however he did.

He politely approached me on the road in front of his house. I was nice, told him his house looked beautiful and some other small talk. I directly asked if there was any river access to #5 and he said no, but you can see it from the public road. He asked me to tell people to not cut though his property, siting liability concerns. He stated that all of the land on the east side from the bridge to the power lines south is private.

Now his lot is not the first one south of the bridge from what it looked like to me. It seems like his north boundary is that buried cable line and there is another lot with barbed wire fencing and no trespassing signs. That lot is adjacent to the river left eddy above the drop where people get out to scout.
I don't think that is his property as well. I didn't ask. He also pointed out all the cars parked east of the bridge as being parked on private property as well, not his but private none the less.

It is what it is. His, and he doesn't want people cutting across his land. I know many people used to takeout after 5 and cut across his land to watch etc. That isn't a option anymore. Take out either before the bridge or at the Trestle Bridge Campground.

Also of note: The normal photo guy was not there, he was downstream on the bank of number 6.

And: downstream of #5 there are some new no trespassing signs painted on river left boulders. There is also a barbed wire fence that was protruding maybe 6 feet into the water in the same area. The flow was 1700cfs. It's avoidable.

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Old 06-05-2009   #59
Dipshit with the most.
carvedog's Avatar
Bellevue, Idaho
Paddling Since: 1991
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,494
All I can say is fuck Colorado water laws. Someone being able to "own" the river bed is so wrong. On so many levels.
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Old 06-22-2009   #60
Buena Vista, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1985
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 8
where cr371 is going

Heads up to all boaters who think that a little eco-terrorrism will change the way things are becoming on river access.The people who live in these homes are well heeled,have lawyers and some would like to close down the road to the public.Speed limit is 25 but hardly obeyed,cut fences and ripped up signs only add to the problem,gives all boaters a bad name.Remember to pay your bucks to the Upper Ark when you boat so that sites like Railroad Bridge can exsit or wake up one day to find that the upper Ark is now like the Taylor river below the res.

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