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Old 04-30-2009   #31
 
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Originally Posted by Tiggy View Post
Actually, if there is a portagable obstacle, then you may go around it ON the owners land. This is called Sportsmans Rights. I am not a lawyer but know one who has been active in the attempt to make colorado rivers navigable (he told me this and you could sue them for thier land for interference, please research further).
In this fucked up state, the public does not automatically get use up to the highwater mark like every other state has adopted. I will not get into the trespass issues
True - just don't take what I said out of context. There were threads above mine inferring that they would walk up and remove signs/fencing. I know about the Sportsmans' Rights issue - it has been raised in Sportsman's Paradise in Cheesman canyon (no relation on the "Sportsman" name).

I think this is where it is misunderstood: If there is a strainer or other feature that makes the section unnavigable, then you can take the risk of portaging on private property to be sued for it or exercise your right under the Sportsmans Rights Defense. Derk - are you sure that scouting falls under this defense? I'm not going to dig my heels in on this, but I think the test is whether a river obstacle forces the user to exit onto private property because there is no other option, and scouting is not included in this (sadly). I.e. Portaging versus scouting.

Then again - everyone seems to have an opinion on this type of issue. Then again, scouting #5 has never helped me avoid the traditional swim....
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Old 04-30-2009   #32
 
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Originally Posted by paddlebizzle View Post
Derk - are you sure that scouting falls under this defense? I'm not going to dig my heels in on this, but I think the test is whether a river obstacle forces the user to exit onto private property because there is no other option, and scouting is not included in this (sadly). I.e. Portaging versus scouting.

Then again - everyone seems to have an opinion on this type of issue. Then again, scouting #5 has never helped me avoid the traditional swim....
No, I'm not sure. I just think (my personal opinion, take it for what it's worth) that if it went to court it would be a fight but I believe that scouting would be defensible under the act. After all, how would you know something necessitated a portage, which the law protects us for, if you did not see the rapid?
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Old 04-30-2009   #33
 
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Originally Posted by brmidjones View Post
My good friend was cited for trespassing on river right at #5 a couple years ago went to court in Salida paid a $200 fine. in Colorado landowners have all the rights and authority, land doesn't even have to be posted. Don't put your foot down or you are guilty of trespassing. Very unfortunate but true.
WOW, I assume they "rent" out the land to the photographers during commercial season but they don't let people scout? Or are there multiple owners on that side? I guess it isn't hypocritical but it seems wrong on a number of levels...
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Old 04-30-2009   #34
 
Longmont, Colorado
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I'm sure if you pay em enough they will let you scout from their yard. How is that hypocritical?
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Old 04-30-2009   #35
 
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I'm sure if you pay em enough they will let you scout from their yard. How is that hypocritical?
"I guess it isn't hypocritical but it seems wrong on a number of levels..."

Read that more closely...
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Old 04-30-2009   #36
 
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Originally Posted by COUNT View Post
scouting would be defensible under the act. After all, how would you know something necessitated a portage, which the law protects us for, if you did not see the rapid?
Sounds circular to me too: you need to scout to ensure that you can safely run the rapid, so you step on private property. Or . . . you run it blind, realize there is an obstacle, eddy out and step on private property. Better yet, you run it, said obstacle forces you to swim (to shore), and you still step on private property.

I think we're in a circular reference... I'm confused. We need a lawyer...
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Old 04-30-2009   #37
 
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what do you need to scout # 5 for?
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Old 04-30-2009   #38
 
Golden, Colorado
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good times, good point. A little good will goes a long way. I think Dalton said it best...
DALTON: Rule #3, Be NICE.
Bouncer: What if someone calls my Momma a whore?
DALTON: Is she?
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Old 04-30-2009   #39
 
Buena Vista, Colorado
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Holy Moly you guys, I just wanted to give a heads up. I'm not trying to start lawsuits. I've been boatin here a long time and some people like to scout 5. Now ya can't. (at least not from the river.) As far as the history of the piece of land goes, a few years ago somebody pushed a bunch of dirt around--I think to build a septic and maybe expanded the bench a little bit. A couple from CrestedButte bought it with intentions to build on it but never did. They were fine with access and scouting etc. They sold it. The new guys built the log home last year and changed the rules. I have no idea if the guy is a jerk or the Dahli Lama or from New York or Timbuctu or whatever. All I know is that he is enforcing his property right. His property right is in conflict with longstanding and traditional practice. Maybe someone should ask him his position and rationale.--that's be my suggestion. I am just trying to give out information. Good Luck. P.S. I've always found that you can go either left or right in five, just don't wait too long to decide which.
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Old 04-30-2009   #40
 
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Its read and run anyway eh'?
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