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Old 07-10-2009   #111
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The Road, Colorado
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Originally Posted by iamyourhuckleberry View Post
Wave back with a full hand of fingers...possible
I am afraid you misinterpreted what I was trying to say there, and perhaps a lot of the rest of what I was trying to say. I was trying to say that I hoped to see you on the numbers to wave to you. I was not, nor was I ever, trying to attack you.

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Old 07-10-2009   #112
The next zone, .
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Man if you boys did not see a fight commin when the name illbeyouruckleberry came across you need to watch tombstone again..

I love that movie.

Huck as a fellow property owner (and hunter) on the Ark I cannot say that I see the same things on my land as you do. If you are that pissed about what you say is goin on there is a arena for you to voice your concerns.....

It is called the Citizens Task Force (CTF). This is a advisory group set up of LANDOWNERS, commercial rafters, fishermen, county commissiners, water stake holders, local law enforcement, private boaters, and Env interests. They advise the AHRA on policy and problem spots here on the Ark. Your land owner reps are Jack and Don (two great level headed gentlemen). Here is their contact info as well as all reps on the CTF

Or you could come in and speak to the people face to face who make the decisions... The next meeting is usually in the fall it will be the first or second week of Oct.. Call the AHRA they will have the date..

You boys can go round and round on this but huck if you feel you have to see change up there the CTF will get way better results that arguin here on the buzz..

Hope it helps you..

"I feel better than any other time when I am in the mountains and uh I cant explain it ya know...." - Shawn Farmer..........
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Old 07-10-2009   #113
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The High Ground, Colorado
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Do all hunters represent Will and you? How would you like it if I visit your forums, come in and crap on the carpet, and then accuse you of unethical behavior? Of course you don't represent all hunters and neither do the boaters and rafters here at the buzz represent the entire outdoor boating community.

I have no need nor desire to step a dry foot on Will's property. If I see others trespassing I'll advise them. I abide by the law as a free man, and as long as there is public land and water still owned by we the people, I will be floating the Ark. you don't know me but unlike your namesake Doc Holliday, you're no card player.

Have a nice weekend.
"Let us cross the river to the other side and rest beneath the shade of the trees." ~ Last words of Thomas Jonathan ''Stonewall' Jackson
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Old 07-10-2009   #114
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Originally Posted by whip5 View Post
Where I come from, you wouldn't have the opportunity to get a citation for tresspassing, you would be shot. I assure you, it a a lot worse for people who wanted access. I wouldn't push my luck.
Check your PMs.
"Let us cross the river to the other side and rest beneath the shade of the trees." ~ Last words of Thomas Jonathan ''Stonewall' Jackson
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Old 07-10-2009   #115
Boulder, Colorado
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I had a quick phone chat with iamyourhuckleberry following a PM to him. I am sympathetic/concerned about access issues from a past experience that my folks had with some fishermen trashing up their land (back in Pa), as well as having to deal with some climbing access issues when I lived back in Pa, so I was courious to see what the story was here... Anyway here is what I got from the conversation (and iamyourhuckleberry please correct me where I am wrong -- it was a pleasure to talk with you.).

I don't think the issue is hopping out of the boat doing a quick shore line scout #5 and hopping back in, just realize that the property is private and respect it, stay close to the shore line. Nor do I think the issue is helping out a swimmer etc. Again just respect the fact that it's private property.

What I got from the conversation is that the issue is more then just this.

Accessing the river around #5 from the road. The little parking area on the north east side of the bridge is "public", but the land heading down to the water is not and is not meant to be a public access to the river. It sounds like if you ask permission, he is willing to grant access.

The guy has had problems with trash, people using the area as a public restroom, tearing down fences (that were above the high water line) and cutting trees.

He (or his family) have had a couple of nasty encounters with folks in that area.

In addition it sounds like there have been some issues with some of the commercial boating groups and how they are parking their busses, blocking access, etc.

Anyway... just wanted to relate that it appears that he does have a legit gribe, there appears to be several different types of groups involved (commerical, campers?, rafters, boaters, etc.)

I think that it would be helpful if the boating community could come up with some suggestions on how to help the situation. It appears that you have a long term landowner that has become frustrated with the disrespect of his property and his family.
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Old 07-10-2009   #116
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Roxborough, Colorado
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Sounds like the owners are just asking for a little respect. And respect gets respect. This doesnt seem too much to ask for and to expect in return.
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Old 07-10-2009   #117
Boulder, Colorado
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I think what has happened is that you are now dealing with a frustrated landowner.
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Old 07-10-2009   #118
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Ok, it seems that this guy is obviously not a troll, but is a real person with a legit reason to be irritated (iamyourhuckleberry, a troll on mtnbuzz is just someone trying to get a raise out of people, often for fun, he was not calling you a name here).

Anyhow, I now realize that you are the owner upstream of the bridge, not directly adjacent to number 5, right?

I knew the parking lot was public, and I also thought the land between the parking lot and river was as well. I think a lot of folks think this is a public access because there are no "no trespassing" signs. I have seen folks panning for gold and fishing here as well as kayakers. You have been kind to allow acces to the river here, and I understand why you are fed up with people using your land like a public park. I do think it is odd that there is a "public" parking lot right at a spot on the river with no legal access to the river. Is there a public strip of land somewhere from the parking lot to the river? I know upstream there is a public road that continues along the river, with campsites and all. I just figured that public land continued down to the bridge..... This is incorrect?

If so, I guess I have been trespassing on your land for years, albiet only once a year or so, since I usually prefer to take-out downstream anyhow. I don't leave trash etc.

My idea is: I will stop using this as river access, and let everyone I boat with know this is not a legal access. If you put up a sign that says "private property" on your land going to the river, people will certaintly be less likely to treat it like a public park, and more likely to steer folks to a different access point. I'll be sad to see such a sign though, as this is a very convenient access point and I do think the majority of boaters treat the land along the river with respect. Don't need to get into the bad apple thing again. I think you have been one of the more generous land owners along the river since you do NOT have NO TRESPASSING signs posted on every tree on your land along the river. If you do continue to allow brief shoreline scouts along your land, that would be great, since some people can get a little nervous at number 5.
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Old 07-10-2009   #119
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Wheat Ridge, Colorado
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One thing I'd like to suggest is for folks to go back and read the first 30 or so posts in this thread. Read it from the point of someone who's not used to the shit talking, bluntness, and flaming that goes on in internet forums and think about what kind of reaction you'd have if you were already pissed off about people (boaters vs. non-boaters isn't the point) shitting on and trashing your land over the years.

Right off the bat we've got Caspermike, who can't spell, punctuate or count to 20 when he's barefoot, much less have a clue about Colorado riparian trespass laws, advocating cutting fences. Then our token socialist, Marko, calls him a douche-bag because he's got the audacity to own property in the first place. Then folks start chiming in with all kinds of talk about lawsuits; that'll send anyone's blood pressure into the red - even if you win, you've still spent a chunk of your life savings defending yourself. Yeti starts talking about how stupid he is for building there in the first place. And add to that all kinds of possible misidentification with exactly where the property is, and characterizations of him as being all kinds of things that he may or may not be. Rdnek nailed it with his "Jump to Conclusions" photo. Then there's Ace trying to use the internet for sarcasm making a joke about inciting a lynch mob to "Hang em!" To top it all off there's a sprinkling of wise-assed peanut gallery comments at Huck's expense and some outright antagonism to boot.

To me its no wonder that Huckleberry's pissed off as hell despite the fact that the majority of posts urge restraint and respect for his private property. He's had trees cut and shit & trash left on his land. I'll grant most of it was probably done out of carelessness and ignorance of the fact its private property. Except for whoever cut trees - that's inexcusable and should be prosecuted. Yeah, I've seen gold panners (using motorized dredging equipment) and fishermen in that area too, but every weekend boaters are probably 90% of the folks there and by sheer numbers that makes us, right or wrong, the easiest group to blame for the problems he's been having. The phrase "adding insult to injury" comes to mind pretty easily for the treatment he's had here.

Hopefully Huck'll continue to show understanding and tolerance to folks that need to scout or who come crawling to shore and corral their yard sale after getting chundered. From what I see it's a tribute to his patience and curiosity that he even attempted to join the dialog here.

Nothing in the world is more yielding and gentle than water. Yet it has no equal for conquering the resistant and tough. The flexible can overcome the unbending; the soft can overcome the hard. - Lao Tse
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Old 07-11-2009   #120
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
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Thanks for that clever little recap, Andy!

I did call the new homeowner a d-bag... and I actually feel bad because, ironically, I briefly met the new homeowner a few weeks after I had already written my post, and found out that he is a nice guy. I felt like a total prick as I was talking with him. I do understand his concerns. If I could go back to the time of writing my post I would most definitely agree with Redneck that I jumped to conclusions about the new owner. My mistake... and I apologize.

As for huckleberry's position... I completely understand his concerns too. I don't have anything to add to the discussion that already hasn't been discussed --which is why I haven't written in this post since APRIL 30TH!! But, since Andy unkindly dragged me back into it, I felt it was a good opportunity to publicly apologize for using the d-word to describe a person I had never met.

Oh, and Andy... you went a little too far with your assumptive characterization of me. At the time of my original post I chose to call the new homeowner a d-bag because I had just read JustinS's post about his run-in with the new owner when he was trying to rescue a friend at #5, and NOT because of your little bullshit presupposition about what I think about private property.

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