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Old 04-30-2009   #71
 
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Tim, don't act like you don't already know the answer to that one...3 the answer is 3!
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Old 04-30-2009   #72
 
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If anyone wants to add comments or description I have set up a Zion Narrows page in the AW database.
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Old 04-30-2009   #73
 
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Originally Posted by okeefe View Post
If anyone wants to add comments or description I have set up a Zion Narrows page in the AW database.
Thanks for setting that up. Unfortunately, you have the wrong rating if you are going by the International Scale of River Difficulty.
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Old 04-30-2009   #74
 
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Originally Posted by C-dub View Post
Tim, don't act like you don't already know the answer to that one...3 the answer is 3!
I'd give 4 for a "Timmy special"
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Old 04-30-2009   #75
 
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Originally Posted by Cutch View Post
Thanks for setting that up. Unfortunately, you have the wrong rating if you are going by the International Scale of River Difficulty.
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Old 04-30-2009   #76
 
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A WWOSR author finally shows! Impressive restraint Cutch.

CEmartin is the guy who blames his buddies' talking when he misses his free throw...the squirrel when he shanks his drive...the color of the car when he backs into it in the parking lot...and his dad for the lousy way he handled that wood.

On a serious note- it's been mentioned but I'm bringing it up again; Have you read any other river guidebooks out there? Have you tried running Cali class V (or III for that matter) based upon LH and CS's beta? WWOSR is far and away the most comprehensive collection of river beta ever bound.

I wouldn't WALK into a slot canyon like this w/o being more prepared than your group was.
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Old 04-30-2009   #77
 
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For those who are still serious enough to discuss the topic at hand, I thought I'd bring up he point of the "Rescue Insurance" as it pertains to what we all like to do. I was thinking about the Colorado SAR surcharge on hunting / fishing licenses, and I know that it doesn't cover as much as most of us CO boater would think. So I went looking for an insurance provider for the entire US, and I came across this posting from the Backpacker forums:
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Some Americans already think they have rescue insurance, but they probably don’t. For example, in Colorado you can purchase an inexpensive COSAR (Colorado Search and Rescue Card) which merely allows sheriff’s departments or volunteer rescue groups to apply for funds to offset the expense of a large or involved effort. Similar plans come attached to various state hunting and fishing licenses. But victims are finding, to their surprise, that their expected coverage falls short.

What’s much less known is that you CAN get real rescue insurance here in the U.S., and it isn’t that expensive. I haven’t shopped around much, but I already know of two viable options:
[] American Alpine Club membership automatically qualifies you for $5,000 worth of search, rescue and evacuation insurance while hiking or climbing on peaks of any height, which might be plenty of coverage for the average, cautious hiker. You can also purchase increased coverage from the AAC’s insurance provider, Global Rescue Inc., a worldwide rescue and security company with 24/7 service. Plans include short-term, high-coverage policies for risky expedition world-wide.
[] Another option: My SPOT satellite text messenger (a 2008 Editor’s Choice product, and, like PLBs and sat phones, the subject of future postings) comes with an insurance plan for $100,000 worth of search and evacuation insurance – for only $9/year with purchase of the beacon ($160) and annual subscription ($100). That service is contracted through a private global rescue company called GEOS Alliance. You can purchase their stand-alone worldwide SAR insurance, with the same $100,000 benefit, for as little as $150/year.
For those of us who choose to participate in expedition boating - and I would consider any run that has unportageable rapids in an isolated environment (be it vertical walls or distance-from-civilization) "expedition boating" - I think this should be something we should consider. Even if those rapids are supposedly Class II.
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Old 04-30-2009   #78
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[] Another option: My SPOT satellite text messenger (a 2008 Editor’s Choice product, and, like PLBs and sat phones, the subject of future postings) comes with an insurance plan for $100,000 worth of search and evacuation insurance – for only $9/year with purchase of the beacon ($160) and annual subscription ($100). That service is contracted through a private global rescue company called GEOS Alliance. You can purchase their stand-alone worldwide SAR insurance, with the same $100,000 benefit, for as little as $150/year.
This is what Randaddy got for his Green/Colorado excursion. The added value is that friends and family can find the boater's location through an online satellite that incorporates google maps to show the location with satellite imaging. It's sweet.
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Old 04-30-2009   #79
 
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I have looked into the spot transmitter before and have discussed it here on the buzz. One thing about it is that it has to have line of sight to one of the sats, which usually wouldn't be a huge deal in a canyon as big as the Colorado, but in the slot canyon especially if you are boatless and stuck on a beach...
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Old 04-30-2009   #80
 
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Yeah, whether the Spot would acquire a signal in a canyon is another problem altogether. I was thinking about it more in terms of having insurance to cover the cost of rescue, and how management agencies might be less inclined to shut down access if expedition-style groups have insurance to cover rescue costs.

And don't get me wrong- I'm not implying that some sort of rescue insurance gives anyone the right to go into an expedition environment unprepared. I know cemartin acknowledges that he made numerous mistakes on his end on gear & planning preparation, so I'm not re-hashing that again.

I do agree that placing any blame on the authors is misguided. Anyone use Tom Robey's Gringo's Guide to Mexican Whitewater (1st edition) might have found themselves in Guatemala on account of some convoluted directions, but he did the boating community a great service by laying down the groundwork. I always paddled a new run in his books with just about every piece of gear I'd need for an overnight & roped egress, even if he stated that the run was Class III. Every rapid I scout down there I always add in a "if I fuck this up, how worth it is it with regards to Mexican hospitals?". Common sense has to prevail.

Unfamiliar run + no guide + remote + no egress + rescue more that 2 hours away = prepare for the worst. I don't care if Jesus himself appears and he swears it's flatwater.
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