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Old 04-29-2009   #41
 
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Not a river guide, Ft. FunK
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Evan splitboards' in street shoes.....
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Old 04-29-2009   #42
 
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I'll leave at this... it appears that some of you (I won't mention names) of you are willing to blindly go along with your redicululous assertions and not even consider any other points of view. That shows a great deal of ignorance. I'm not going to bother to address it because I'd never want to paddle with you anyway. So here are my thoughts... FUCK YOU!
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Old 04-29-2009   #43
 
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Bozeman, Montana
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cemartin you were unprepared. you admitted it. could things had a different outcome say you were preparred(including a possible guide) it would've helped prevent a majority of the shitshow that happened to you. and i don't think you would have had any problems. so is it the guide book or operator malfunction?
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Old 04-29-2009   #44
 
Golden, Colorado
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Originally Posted by cemartin View Post
I'll leave at this... it appears that some of you (I won't mention names) of you are willing to blindly go along with your redicululous assertions and not even consider any other points of view. That shows a great deal of ignorance. I'm not going to bother to address it because I'd never want to paddle with you anyway. So here are my thoughts... FUCK YOU!
I think most of the responses you got in both of your threads were pretty charitable and not many of them outright dismissed you. I think a lot more people would be giving you credit if you weren't standing by your assertion that a guide book had anything to do with your team's complete self-destruction.

I don't think you are going to have to worry too much about requests to team up from the jerks on mountainbuzz.
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Old 04-29-2009   #45
 
Durango, CO
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It's amazing how ineffective the web is at communicating a little bit of sarcasm and touch in cheek. I think the book is great. Kyle and Evan put in a huge amount of work with a great finished product. When I commented on sandbagging initially it was a mildly sarcastic reference to the fact that the book understates alot of the runs in it purposely so as to allow us boaters to more fully enjoy the sense of adventure. The gist of the point I was trying to make was not to underestimate the Narrows. Taking inexperienced boaters in there might not be the best idea. As in all outdoor sports we are all only as strong as the weakest link in our group and need make appropriate decisions accordingly. I think these posts are a great example of ' shit happens" and should factor into future decisions by groups of boaters. As in anything there are unlimited ways of reading something different into statements and beta made in a guide book. Ultimately they are personal decisions. I think the whitewater in the Narrows is quite manageable for most experienced paddlers but as I mentioned in an earlier post things can get AFU' ed in a hurry in places like the Narrows. If I have offended anybody I apologize for my sarcasm. I will say though that publishing a guide such as WWOSR will have unintended potentially negative consequences such as substantially increased use problems and access problems. And finally, this season seems to be starting out rather badly across the U.S. with accidents so Heads Up and watch out for your Bro's. SYOTR -Peace
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Old 04-29-2009   #46
 
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I think that all these guys need to be man enough to admit that they are the ones who screwed up big, and possibly jeopardized access to an awesome stretch of river. It is of no fault of anyone but the individuals.
Did you guys think this was brown's canyon class III with a noah's ark boat waiting around every corner to clean up your shit show? Did you know anything about canyon country and slot canyons before you began? And shit, you spent the whole night freezing your ass off only to find your lighter in the morning (maybe look through your stuff to see what might be in there?).
Amateur, definitely Bush league stuff here boys. You make your mistakes and own up to them (thats what an adult does at least). Are you gonna blame your boat manufacturer for letting you swim? Was it a great idea to run a sketchy rapid after you already got your shit handed to you?
Use your brain, stick to Shoshone or Brown's Canyon and once you figure out that you alone are to blame, maybe you will learn something from this. And maybe we won't be so pissed off when they change regulations because you all screwed up.
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Old 04-29-2009   #47
 
Denver, Colorado
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This is getting hilarious. Boater F's up big time and continues to blame guide book authors. Ha ha!

What the hell do you expect from a guidebook? Kyle's batphone hotline number so he can drive all night to meet you at the narrows, carry your boat in for you, paddle ahead and cut all the strainers out for you, and have a cold beer and snacks waiting at the takeout?

Looking forward to the 100 page edition of CEMartin's handholding guide to shit-showing the zion narrows. That will surely be a pinnacle in guidebook writing. Chapter one: Being unprepared...

If you've been boating for 30 years, you should know that there is only one person on this planet responsible for your performance on the river, and its you. End of story.

Thanks for the laugh.
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Old 04-29-2009   #48
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cemartin View Post
I'll leave at this... it appears that some of you (I won't mention names) of you are willing to blindly go along with your redicululous assertions and not even consider any other points of view. That shows a great deal of ignorance. I'm not going to bother to address it because I'd never want to paddle with you anyway. So here are my thoughts... FUCK YOU!
AWW... Damn, I really wanted to go kayaking with you after this thread. I was just about to PM you and see if you wanted to run the black canyon. I was figuring with all your expert experience, planning, chill mentality, and the great advice of WWOSR (of course) we would be sure to have a fun trip.

It certainly is a real loss to the community, that none of us are ever going to get to boat or hang out with this guy.
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Old 04-29-2009   #49
 
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This thread started out containing some good beta and some baseless insults. In classic form it slowly devolved to just being funny as hell. Cliff notes:

-CEMartin has an epic and blames the guidebook

-Several well-meaning posters offer euphemistic posts saying "glad you're okay but you might reconsider your position on this matter.

-Posts gradually grow more critical of CEMartin

-Caspermike gets (nicely) called out twice, loses his shit and gets defensive (a key component of any epic buzz thread)

-CEMartin says "fuck you" to the haters

-Lotsawater talks about Leif's mom and spits endless sarcasm (also a key component to every epic buzz thread)

-Several well meaning boaters offer valuable insight that is lost amongst the (increasingly hilarious) noise.
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Old 04-29-2009   #50
 
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SECRET?

I disagree sharply with the assertion that this run is or was a secret. It's mentioned in Gary Nichols' 1986 guidebook "River Runners Guide to Utah" giving Jim Byrne credit for the first descent. On my trips in the narrows I've seen lots of duckies and few hardshell kayaks, and in discussions with folks from down there most of the beta is disseminated through canyoneering blogs, not WWOTSR. In fact, the virgin river runners coalition www.virginriver.org had pics on their site of the narrows 5+ years ago. Come on, there aren't that many rivers in Utah, tons of hikers traverse this section each year, and to think that anyone in Utah with a boat and a map hasn't thought about the virgin narrows is naive. Just don't tell anyone about our other secret run the black box of the San Rafael, it was on the cover of the 1986 book.
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