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Old 06-04-2011   #31
Jackson, Wyoming
Paddling Since: 1492
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 283
Originally Posted by lhowemt View Post
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Photos from a recent overflight. The road looks pretty darn snowed it, but I think the tree is Dagger looks gone.
Thanks for posting these. This helps a lot. Looks like it's the Owyhee for us.

So many rivers, so little time..........
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Old 06-05-2011   #32
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 81
Originally Posted by Hap_ View Post
This is only the notion of an Appalachian boater, but has anyone ever given any thought to dragging gear up there with cats? Seems lucrative to me. A cat train can move a ton of stuff, and riders could kick it and sip beer on the way like the old beloved Glen Miller shuttle.
The problem with that is this time of year roads are usually not entirely covered with a uniform layer of snow. There may be lengths with drifts many feet deep and extended sections that have no snow that are either mud pits or totally dry. A cat would tear the crap out of a muddy road not to mention what would happen to whatever it was towing when it got dragged through the muck.

As painful as it is to wait, it's best to wait for nature to take it's course

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Old 06-05-2011   #33
Garrettsville, Ohio
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 11
I knew there had to be at least a dozen reasons why that was a bad idea, or somebody would have been doing it.
Nobody ever died wishing they had put more time in at the office.
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Old 06-05-2011   #34
pocatello, Idaho
Paddling Since: 1991
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 471
how about an ATV with track conversions. those things can do dry, snow and muck without much damage.
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Old 06-05-2011   #35
catboatkeith's Avatar
Hoback Nation, Wyoming
Paddling Since: 1987
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 141
I'm giving up hope on June11th Boundary launch
"Each mile on a river will take you further from home than a hundred miles on a road"
Bob Marshall
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Old 06-06-2011   #36
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stanley, Idaho
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 61
Here is the road today. Someone drove it with chains. I do not know how far they made it, my guess is the slide. This is a great sign, its going to help the melt. I would guess a few more days and the road will open.
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Old 06-07-2011   #37
Dipshit with the most.
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Bellevue, Idaho
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Posts: 2,494
Thanks IRG. That's looking a lot better.
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Old 06-07-2011   #38
Everyone needs a vacation
Fairfield, California
Paddling Since: 1998
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Yes, thank you for the updates!!! Looks like we will be in luck for our June 21st launch, maybe too lucky if the flow is more than we want... might be HUGE!
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Old 06-07-2011   #39
Helena, Montana
Paddling Since: 96
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Originally Posted by catboatkeith
I'm giving up hope on June11th Boundary launch
Same boat, plan B has been activated.....
Never get out of the boat
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Old 06-08-2011   #40
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Lakewood, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2002
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 670
This was just sent out to the YahooGroup "idahowhitewater." Not my post, just thought I'd share.
__________________________________________________ ______________

[idahowhitewater] Why the Boundary Cr. road is not open

Wednesday, June 8, 2011 11:01 AM

"Birddog" <>


The Forrest Service won't issue a permit to River Outfitters to plow the road this year.

Here is my understanding:

The FS has completely changed their requirements this year and have come up with reasons why they won't issue a permit and requirements that hinder outfitters from plowing the road.

Historically outfitters have put up a $1,000.00 bond with the FS in order to obtain a permit, then paid to have someone from Stanley or Hailey punch through the deep spots. Cutting a single lane has always worked in the past - the dirt road radiates heat and within a few days the snow melts back on both lanes. Have you ever driven on a one lane road at any point in your life? You stop, look for oncoming traffic and proceed slowly, right? It works.

This year the FS won't issue a permit unless both lanes are completely cleared for "safety reasons." I think a safety flagger was suggested at one point - like at road construction sites. Really?

Even if multiple outfitters pitch in to pay to have both lanes opened (there are seven outfitters with trips next week who are willing to pay and actively asking for a permit) the FS won't let anyone drive on the road until the FS road engineer inspects the work. To me, it sounds like they want their spring road maintenance costs covered by someone else....

One of the more recent FS block-out rationales is that if the road is opened there still won't be anyone at Boundary to check for the quagga mussel stickers. All outfitters have the stickers (for boats that never even leave the state, but just make circles all summer on the MF), so is the FS actually worried about privates not having the stickers? What about all the folks launching on Marsh Creek right now? Who's checking them? Right.....

It cost one outfitter $2600 to fly into Indian Creek last week (good for - that same outfitter contributes about $18,000/ year to the FS in user access fees! ($4/person/day + 3% of gross)

Last week was a 4 day trip. With six day trips starting next week, and the water cranking along at six feet, those are going to be 5 minute days on the water (I hope you understanding that is an exaggeration - but not by much) and camp sites could get jammed up - in other words the FS is intentionally jamming together groups that would otherwise be spread out across the entire 100 miles.

With the road currently closed, more private boaters are going to be motivated to use Marsh Creek - remember a few years back when there were a couple deaths on Marsh Creek?

My personal opinion is that the FS is not issuing a road plowing permit largely for the same reason that they decided not to re-issue August cancelations to privates - they don't want people to access the river.*

The FS can't dangle a private boater's livelihood or job over their heads like they can with outfitters and guides. If you are a private boater and you have a June launch date, and you want to launch at Boundary Cr., why don't you just get together with other private groups and just go cut in a single lane after 5p.m. like a group of Colorado boaters have done the last couple of years? Just like the no reissuing of August cancellations, this is something that many privates boaters and outfitters can agree is a crock of sh... oh, wait better keep this a "G" rated forum.

Life is Grand!

A temid=63
watch ex-Middle Fork Guide Jim Norton's eye-opening film:

*The reason I think that the cancellation re-issuing question is only partially about Salmon is because the biologist calling for the new rule admitted that the 4 lower snake dams are the actual problem preventing Idaho Salmon from recovery. The FS has been looking for excuses to reduce use since 1998 - ironically if an outfitter doesn't use a launch date the FS threatens to take that launch date away and re allocate to another outfitter for "lack of use" What????


"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain
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